I have a display bag from the Desert Inn. It’s too big for a cart, though. $300
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I carry a driver along with a 3, 5, 7, 9, and 15 metal. I would like a bag that I can fit everything in and this bag looks good. I like the fact I can get my putter and Lob wedge out of the bag and leave more space in the bag. Anyone else know of any larger bags like this they would recommend. http://www.iznadgolf.com/rjsporcomcar.html
Don’t forget some mayo and Rye with that SPAM Pat.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How many folks are you going to hire to carry that thing? I carry a driver along with a 3, 5, 7, 9, and 15 metal. I would like a bag that I can fit everything in and this bag looks good. I like the fact I can get my putter and Lob wedge out of the bag and leave more space in the bag. Anyone else know of any larger bags like this they would recommend. http://www.iznadgolf.com/rjsporcomcar.html
Don’t forget some mayo and Rye with that SPAM Pat.
Get a clue, Pat’s message wasn’t SPAM. — http://rec-sport-golf.com/?rc=hayesd
Don’t forget some mayo and Rye with that SPAM Pat. Get a clue, Pat’s message wasn’t SPAM.
Duh. But he responded to the OP as if it were not spam.
I carry a driver along with a 3, 5, 7, 9, and 15 metal. I would like a bag that I can fit everything in and this bag looks good. I like the fact I can get my putter and Lob wedge out of the bag and leave more space in the bag. Anyone else know of any larger bags like this they would recommend.
The primary question is how do you move your clubs around the course? Do you always have your bag strapped to a vehicle? Do you use a push or pull cart sometimes? Do you occasionally carry?
Maybe he replied like it wasn’t spam because it is not. I am trying to find a large golf bag for my clubs. I hate having to search for where a club goes back to when my head covers are on the metals. I thought this was about he biggest you could get. I did find some tour style golf bags that appear to be larger yet. Like the Hogan tour style and Ogio Boss hog but they do not have a place to hold the putter or a wedge external which makes them easier to get to. I use a pull cart with 12′ wheels made by Oscar Williams. Not sure if the company still exists but it is a nice cart.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I carry a driver along with a 3, 5, 7, 9, and 15 metal. I would like a bag that I can fit everything in and this bag looks good. I like the fact I can get my putter and Lob wedge out of the bag and leave more space in the bag. Anyone else know of any larger bags like this they would recommend. http://www.iznadgolf.com/rjsporcomcar.html
I carry a driver along with a 3, 5, 7, 9, and 15 metal. I would like a bag that I can fit everything in and this bag looks good. I like the fact I can get my putter and Lob wedge out of the bag and leave more space in the bag. Anyone else know of any larger bags like this they would recommend. http://www.iznadgolf.com/rjsporcomcar.html
How many folks are you going to hire to carry that thing?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I carry a driver along with a 3, 5, 7, 9, and 15 metal. I would like a bag that I can fit everything in and this bag looks good. I like the fact I can get my putter and Lob wedge out of the bag and leave more space in the bag. Anyone else know of any larger bags like this they would recommend. http://www.iznadgolf.com/rjsporcomcar.html
I have been reading about these things in the catalogs for a long time: "Hit every shot with a clean club. No more unsightly stained towels on your golf bag. Keeps its shape. $19.99" I saw a set on a fellow’s bag this morning. Crusted with mud. 
I have one. It works well; never have to clean it. The mud dries up and falls off eventually.
Bill: Contact me via email immediately, please!!!! Thanks. P. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been reading about these things in the catalogs for a long time: "Hit every shot with a clean club. No more unsightly stained towels on your golf bag. Keeps its shape. $19.99" I saw a set on a fellow’s bag this morning. Crusted with mud. I have one. It works well; never have to clean it. The mud dries up and falls off eventually.
I have been reading about these things in the catalogs for a long time: "Hit every shot with a clean club. No more unsightly stained towels on your golf bag. Keeps its shape. $19.99" I saw a set on a fellow’s bag this morning. Crusted with mud.
I got one as a gift, and it has proven durable and useful. The surface is a black fake fur of some sort and doesn’t look bad when dirty and doesn’t seem to get as dirty, though I’m not one of those guys who is cleaning the club after every shot. (I’m also an early morning player which means the dewy grass normally keeps them pretty clean to begin with) I don’t know about the price. Doesn’t everyone get enough free towels from outings that they never have to buy them — http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery )
I have been reading about these things in the catalogs for a long time: "Hit every shot with a clean club. No more unsightly stained towels on your golf bag. Keeps its shape. $19.99" I saw a set on a fellow’s bag this morning. Crusted with mud.
I have been reading about these things in the catalogs for a long time: "Hit every shot with a clean club. No more unsightly stained towels on your golf bag. Keeps its shape. $19.99" I saw a set on a fellow’s bag this morning. Crusted with mud.
But the ad sounded good. He has one. Might be a gift though. Rick
I agree jim but I must have stumped the group because I haven’t heard from anyone yet
You had better check your news server. There have been several replies which addressed each of your questions. — Dan Driscoll Member – NCGA RSG FAQ: http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html RSG Roll Call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=driscolld
One further note. In my experience, club pros often don’t know the rules as well as people think they do. I would serve all golfers well to learn the rules as well as they can, and carry a rulebook with them to back their knowledge up. You were smart to ask for advice in this forum, so you will know next time. There are a lot of people here who know the rules very well, and there are a lot of discussions on rules here. — Jim Sabatke Hire Me!! – See my resume at http://my.execpc.com/~jsabatke Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
I agree jim but I must have stumped the group because I haven’t heard from anyone yet — "Born to Golf. Forced to Work." Dan Earley RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/index.html?rollcall=earleydan
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One further note. In my experience, club pros often don’t know the rules as well as people think they do. I would serve all golfers well to learn the rules as well as they can, and carry a rulebook with them to back their knowledge up. You were smart to ask for advice in this forum, so you will know next time. There are a lot of people here who know the rules very well, and there are a lot of discussions on rules here. — Jim Sabatke Hire Me!! – See my resume at http://my.execpc.com/~jsabatke Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
I agree jim but I must have stumped the group because I haven’t heard from anyone yet
Wendy and David S-A posted responses. I stayed out of it because I didn’t feel like asking how the ‘lift, clean, place’ Local Rule was written and whether the Local Rule in Appendix I; Part B; Section 3a was in effect. I wondered how many different ways you were entitled to lift the original ball. Also, when you put the ball back (dropping instead of placing) did you know the precise location from which the ball had been lifted ? Also, I wasn’t aware (until I read David S-A’s post) that when LCP is in place the Committee might require you to take relief from the GUR even if you were entitled to LCP in that area as well. — http://rec-sport-golf.com/?rc=hayesd
Dan, When you picked the ball up the first time you should have dropped it OUTSIDE the ground under repair. When you decided not to do this, you should have replaced it in it’s original position. When you dropped the ball, you could have/should have, corrected this mistake by lifting the dropped ball and replacing it properly. by not doing that, you incurred a 2 stoke penalty under rule 18. Your fellow competitors were wrong about having you drop back in the ground under repair. You were now in a new situation…the ball was now in casual water and you were entitled to relief without penalty. You should have left the ball alone. When you picked it up and dropped it again, you incurred another 2 stroke penalty, also under 18-2. It could be argued that you only incur a total of 2 penalty strokes for a general breach of rule 18. since none of the places you dropped seem to be a serious breach, you should not be DQ for a serious breach of a wrong place. The question is…were you DQed for turning in an incorrect score card? If you received 4 penalty strokes then your card was wrong and you are DQed for that!
I played in a county amateur tournament this past weekend and was disqualified for an illegal drop. Was this rules violation handled correctly: It was wet and raining and we were playing lift, clean, and place. My drive plugged in the rough in an area marked ground under repair. I unplugged the ball and looked for the nearest point of relief.
Local rules for ‘lift, clean and place’ clash with those of GUR, and exercising that rule (LCP) in GUR would incurr a penalty under Rule18-2. The convention is that as soon as you lift a ball in GUR you are taking relief according to the GUR rules (Rule 25-1) because this is the precedent authority that allows you to lift the ball. (This means that you must take complete relief outside the GUR). The procedure in Rule 25-1 provides that you can lift, and clean the ball anyway (as in LCP)….but not place….if you then place the ball you are negating the authority for lifting provided by Rule 25-1and therefore incur a penalty in accordance with Rule 18-2! The same applies to the plugged ball procedure, which is irrelevant anyway because relief is only allowed for a ball plugged in a closely mown area…and not in the rough. (Rule 25-2). So…basically, if you lift a ball from GUR you must proceed in accordance with the GUR rule which is Rule 25-1; which is to drop a ball within 1 club-length of the nearest point of relief (no nearer the hole etc). If this then places your ball in casual water you have a new ‘abnormal ground condition’ to contend with…which will allow you further relief in a similar manner. BTW….if you drop a ball in a wrong place you are allowed to correct this mistake without penalty! (Rule 20-6)…contrary to the advice of your opponents. By failing to take relief under the proper procedure (Rule 25-1) you dropped and played from a wrong place, and therefore breached Rule 20-7…..Rule 25-1 is the applicable rule so you incurred a 2-stroke penalty. There is no evidence of a serious breach so there would be no prospect of DQ…….you also apparently included a 2-stroke penalty on your card (albeit for the wrong reason) so there can be no DQ for signing an incorrect card either! I’d say you probably got away with it quite legally…..and you were improperly DQ’d! cheers david
Huh?? The explanation lacks clarity as you have three rules wrapped up here. LCP as a local rule, embedded (25-2) with a local rule for the entire course, and ground under repair (25-1). You don’t drop using LCP so it isn’t clear who was doing what to whom when and where. DQ is not unreasonable as you seemed to have mixing rules. Any time there are multiple rules involved, take them one at a time even if it means multiple drops, etc. Assuming you started with LCP, you could place the ball in the GUR. As a separate second action, you then can take GUR relief to get out of the GUR area. If you take the GUR, both you and the ball must end up out of the GUR area.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I played in a county amateur tournament this past weekend and was disqualified for an illegal drop. Was this rules violation handled correctly: It was wet and raining and we were playing lift, clean, and place. My drive plugged in the rough in an area marked ground under repair. I unplugged the ball and looked for the nearest point of relief. This option put my ball behind a tree so I opted to drop in the ground under repair area next to the plug mark. The ball was deemed to be in play. When I took my stance water came over my shoes and the ground was so unstable I couldn’t keep my balance, so I picket up the ball and started to drop it outside the under repair area. My opponents said I couldn’t do this since I had already dropped it and it was in play. So I redropped the ball back in the under repair area and took a two stroke penalty. At the end of the round we asked the pro if the penalty was correct and he said yes but I should have placed the ball back as near as possible to the original drop spot. Since I didn’t, I was DQed. Any comments about the ruling, not my stupidity. — "Born to Golf. Forced to Work." Dan Earley RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/index.html?rollcall=earleydan
I played in a county amateur tournament this past weekend and was disqualified for an illegal drop. Was this rules violation handled correctly: It was wet and raining and we were playing lift, clean, and place. My drive plugged in the rough in an area marked ground under repair. I unplugged the ball and looked for the nearest point of relief. This option put my ball behind a tree so I opted to drop in the ground under repair area next to the plug mark. The ball was deemed to be in play. When I took my stance water came over my shoes and the ground was so unstable I couldn’t keep my balance, so I picket up the ball and started to drop it outside the under repair area. My opponents said I couldn’t do this since I had already dropped it and it was in play. So I redropped the ball back in the under repair area and took a two stroke penalty. At the end of the round we asked the pro if the penalty was correct and he said yes but I should have placed the ball back as near as possible to the original drop spot. Since I didn’t, I was DQed. Any comments about the ruling, not my stupidity. — "Born to Golf. Forced to Work." Dan Earley RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/index.html?rollcall=earleydan
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I played in a county amateur tournament this past weekend and was disqualified for an illegal drop. Was this rules violation handled correctly: It was wet and raining and we were playing lift, clean, and place. My drive plugged in the rough in an area marked ground under repair. I unplugged the ball and looked for the nearest point of relief. This option put my ball behind a tree so I opted to drop in the ground under repair area next to the plug mark. The ball was deemed to be in play. When I took my stance water came over my shoes and the ground was so unstable I couldn’t keep my balance, so I picket up the ball and started to drop it outside the under repair area. My opponents said I couldn’t do this since I had already dropped it and it was in play. So I redropped the ball back in the under repair area and took a two stroke penalty. At the end of the round we asked the pro if the penalty was correct and he said yes but I should have placed the ball back as near as possible to the original drop spot. Since I didn’t, I was DQed. Any comments about the ruling, not my stupidity.
I’m assuming that your first drop was based on "ground under repair" and not "lift, clean and place" since you were in the rough and not in a closely mown area. I think your first drop may have been improper because you have to take complete relief from the "condition" and could not, therefore, drop in the ground under repair area. See rule 25-1. In the case your first drop was legal, then you would have entitled to take further relief from casual water, and allowed a 2nd drop. See decision 25-1b/11.5 As to the DQ, check rule 20-7: If a competitor plays a stroke with his ball in play (i) which has been dropped or placed in a wrong place or (ii) which has been moved and not replaced in a case where the Rules require replacement, he shall, provided a serious breach has not occurred, incur the penalty prescribed by the applicable Rule and play out the hole with the ball. If, after playing from a wrong place, a competitor becomes aware of that fact and believes that a serious breach may be involved, he may, provided he has not played a stroke from the next teeing ground or, in the case of the last hole of the round, left the putting green, declare that he will play out the hole with a second ball dropped or placed in accordance with the Rules. The competitor shall report the facts to the Committee before returning his score card; if he fails to do so, he shall be disqualified. The Committee shall determine whether a serious breach of the Rule occurred. If so, the score with the second ball shall count and the competitor shall add two penalty strokes to his score with that ball. If a serious breach has occurred and the competitor has failed to correct it as prescribed above, he shall be disqualified — Jim Sabatke Hire Me!! – See my resume at http://my.execpc.com/~jsabatke Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
Does anybody have a copy of the local rules for a USGA competition that limits you to 18 balls? The applications for the 2000 US Open, US Amateur, and US Women’s Amateur have Golf Ball and Footwear conditions. The only golf ball condition is the one ball rule. The only reason I have the applications is that they list all the qualifying sites and dates; a cheap way to see some good competitive golf. — Ball Marks: Fix yours and one more
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For you and me, the only limit on how many balls we carry is how many we CAN carry. However, the PGA Tour and the USGA (for the US Open, US Amateur, etc.) do have local rules in effect that limit how many balls a competitor can carry. I believe that limit is 18. — Dan Driscoll Member USGA, NCGA RSG FAQ: http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html RSG Roll Call http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/driscolld.htm
Actually the 18 ball limit is probably imposed by the caddies, i.e. (18 * 1.68oz) / 16 oz/lb = 1.9lb. And those tour bags are sooooo big already. Larry
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I may very well be wrong. I remember hearing something about an 18 ball limit 10+ years ago, but I have to admit that I have never seen it in writing anywhere. — Dan Driscoll Member USGA, NCGA RSG FAQ: http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html RSG Roll Call http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/driscolld.htm
Actually the 18 ball limit is probably imposed by the caddies, i.e. (18 * 1.68oz) / 16 oz/lb = 1.9lb. And those tour bags are sooooo big already.
Since you have to hole out with the ball you teed off with, 18 is all you’d need, assuming you didn’t lose one. Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/wilsonc.htm Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com
18 balls is either the caddies union or golf folk tale – one new ball a hole. — Ball Marks: Fix yours and one more
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually the 18 ball limit is probably imposed by the caddies, i.e. (18 * 1.68oz) / 16 oz/lb = 1.9lb. And those tour bags are sooooo big already. Since you have to hole out with the ball you teed off with, 18 is all you’d need, assuming you didn’t lose one. Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/wilsonc.htm Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com
There NEVER has been a Rule, local or otherwise, which restricted the number of balls with which a player started play, nor pervented borrowing a ball from a fellow competitor (and I sometimes work as USGA and PGA Rules Official)– The "myth" has its roots in the era of the handmade ball (feathery or gutta-percha) when the player was required to have the pro "certify" that his ball conformed to weight and measurment and balls were very, very expensive— Only so many balls were certified before starting the round and it was bad form to borrow– BUT, a Rule never prohibiited it
Since you have to hole out with the ball you teed off with, 18 is all you’d need, assuming you didn’t lose one.
Under those circumstances, a player would only need one ball. I have never heard of an 18-ball limit. It certainly hasn’t been in force while I’ve been officiating.
Does anybody have a copy of the local rules for a USGA competition that limits you to 18 balls? The applications for the 2000 US Open, US Amateur, and US Women’s Amateur have Golf Ball and Footwear conditions. The only golf ball condition is the one ball rule. The only reason I have the applications is that they list all the qualifying sites and dates; a cheap way to see some good competitive golf. — Ball Marks: Fix yours and one more
I may very well be wrong. I remember hearing something about an 18 ball limit 10+ years ago, but I have to admit that I have never seen it in writing anywhere. — Dan Driscoll Member USGA, NCGA RSG FAQ: http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html RSG Roll Call http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/driscolld.htm
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You should get in the habit of asking for proof when someone tells you about a rule — let him find it in the book. (As a supporting note, this person mentioned the scene in Tin Cup when Cheech says to Costner "This is your last ball Cup. Get this one wet and you’re disqualified.") The PGA Tour and the U.S. Open (which was the tournament in Tin Cup) use a Condition of Competition known as the ‘One Ball Rule’ (it’s in appendix I of the rules, I think). This rule says that a player may use only one type of ball for his entire round (i.e. he can use the Titleist Tour Distance 90 or he can use the Top Flite XL 2000 but he can’t switch in the middle of his round). Any golfer who runs out of balls during a tournament is allowed to borrow a ball from another player or even a gallery member; however, if the ‘one ball rule’ is in effect he can only borrow a ball of the same type that he has been playing. (See Decision 5-1/5 at http://www.usga.org/rules/rule_2000/index.html) Can someone help me out here? (BTW…I’m pretty new to this game and if there is an official limit I won’t be playing "by the rules" for a while, at least not on courses with water.) Carry as many as you need, stay on the short grass, enjoy the game. — –dph. (preferred email: dhayes AT iname DOT com)
I thought the PGA Tour had a local rule limiting players to 18 balls? FWIW, I thought that BEFORE _Tin Cup_ came out. — Dan Driscoll Member USGA, NCGA RSG FAQ: http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html RSG Roll Call http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/driscolld.htm
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Someone told me that there is a limit to the number of balls that can be carried in one’s bag when playing a "by the rules" round of golf, but I read the WHOLE rulebook and even found rules that say a golfer may borrow a ball from another golfer, but nothing about a limit on the number that can be carried. (As a supporting note, this person mentioned the scene in Tin Cup when Cheech says to Costner "This is your last ball Cup. Get this one wet and you’re disqualified.") Can someone help me out here? (BTW…I’m pretty new to this game and if there is an official limit I won’t be playing "by the rules" for a while, at least not on courses with water.)
Matthew, For you and me, the only limit on how many balls we carry is how many we CAN carry. However, the PGA Tour and the USGA (for the US Open, US Amateur, etc.) do have local rules in effect that limit how many balls a competitor can carry. I believe that limit is 18. — Dan Driscoll Member USGA, NCGA RSG FAQ: http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html RSG Roll Call http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/driscolld.htm
Someone told me that there is a limit to the number of balls that can be carried in one’s bag when playing a "by the rules" round of golf, but I read the WHOLE rulebook and even found rules that say a golfer may borrow a ball from another golfer, but nothing about a limit on the number that can be carried. (As a supporting note, this person mentioned the scene in Tin Cup when Cheech says to Costner "This is your last ball Cup. Get this one wet and you’re disqualified.") Can someone help me out here? (BTW…I’m pretty new to this game and if there is an official limit I won’t be playing "by the rules" for a while, at least not on courses with water.)
Someone told me that there is a limit to the number of balls that can be carried in one’s bag when playing a "by the rules" round of golf, but I read the WHOLE rulebook and even found rules that say a golfer may borrow a ball from another golfer, but nothing about a limit on the number that can be carried.
You should get in the habit of asking for proof when someone tells you about a rule — let him find it in the book. (As a supporting note, this person mentioned the scene in Tin Cup when Cheech says to Costner "This is your last ball Cup. Get this one wet and you’re disqualified.")
The PGA Tour and the U.S. Open (which was the tournament in Tin Cup) use a Condition of Competition known as the ‘One Ball Rule’ (it’s in appendix I of the rules, I think). This rule says that a player may use only one type of ball for his entire round (i.e. he can use the Titleist Tour Distance 90 or he can use the Top Flite XL 2000 but he can’t switch in the middle of his round). Any golfer who runs out of balls during a tournament is allowed to borrow a ball from another player or even a gallery member; however, if the ‘one ball rule’ is in effect he can only borrow a ball of the same type that he has been playing. (See Decision 5-1/5 at http://www.usga.org/rules/rule_2000/index.html) Can someone help me out here? (BTW…I’m pretty new to this game and if there is an official limit I won’t be playing "by the rules" for a while, at least not on courses with water.)
Carry as many as you need, stay on the short grass, enjoy the game. — –dph. (preferred email: dhayes AT iname DOT com)
Unless I’m mistaken, you are ALWAYS allowed to putt out when your previous stroke was played from the putting green no matter whether you are away or not. David Ober
You are mistaken. In stroke play, you can either mark or putt out but in match play (the situation quoted), you must (if requested) replay in the correct order in the correct order. Note, however, if you played out of order and missed the putt, you cannot say ‘Oh you should have gone first, I’ll replay after you". The recall depends on the opponent. SteveR
: mark it but he putted out anyway. I claimed the hole as he played out of turn. : This caused a big argument as none of the other three had heard of this : "rule". : We lost anyway but I had been told this "rule" but cannot find it in my : abbreviated book. If someone can clarify it I will pin it to the club : noticeboard. Thanks. : : he should just have had to taken his shot over and not lost the hole he should ask if he can hole out and you should let him unless you would like a mark to aim for like his marker
If you requested that your opponent mark his ball, and he putts, you may require that he replay the stroke in correct order. If the request is made, and opponent refuses to replay his putt, he never completes the hole. In that case you would win the hole.
BTW, you are entitled to insist that he replay the stroke, but YOU ARE NOT REQUIRED TO. This means that, if he screwed up the shot, you don’t have to tell him to replay it. And if you don’t tell him to, his screw-up stands. Cheers! Dave
As Dec US/20-1/100 is "applicable in US only", would you say that if a player eliminates the first step (marking the ball) and measures simply one clubhead to the side, breaches Rule 24-1 in the R&A area?
You mean 20-1? Yes, that was my first reflection but I’m still investigating it. I’m trying to get in touch with a senior rulie, may need a few days. Jan
In Match Play this situation arose which I would like clarification please. It was a Four-Ball Match play. My opponent and I were both on the green (the other two out of it). I had played four and him two and he was to play. He putted up and past the hole and stopped just inside my marker. I asked him to mark it ( I hoped we could escape with a half if I got my my five and he had a bit of pressure for his four) and he said he would finish. I said again mark it but he putted out anyway. I claimed the hole as he played out of turn. This caused a big argument as none of the other three had heard of this "rule". We lost anyway but I had been told this "rule" but cannot find it in my abbreviated book. If someone can clarify it I will pin it to the club noticeboard. Thanks.
You are not quite right. The situation is: (1) the ‘right-to-play’ is yours – the furthest ball from the hole. The opponent SHOULD have marked as you requested, thus (2) he played out of turn, so (3) you may request that he replay the putt at the proper time. Refusal to do so would involve him depriving another player of his rights and so his side would possibly become subject to a DQ. HOWEVER!!!!! You say that your respective partners were ‘out of it’. If by this you mean that their balls had been lost/picked up/removed from play then the above stands BUT if the opponent’s partners ball was still technically in play and that ball was furthest from the hole then that SIDE has ‘right-of-play’ and either of the two players can play their stroke and the opponent would have been within his rights to make the putt. SteveR
–snip– The difference is an optional local rule in Appendix I. The Decision is US/20-1/100 (probably not in the R&A version of the Decisions). The note in the R&A version of Rule 20-1 is the same. There is no optional Local Rule entitled Marking Position of Lifted Ball in the R&A version and AFAIK there is no Decision on the matter (don’t have the Decisions handy for the moment). My conclusion is that in R&A areas an interfering ball shall be marked properly and then move the marker one or more clubheads. If the ball isn’t interfering then you can mark it with whatever you like. Jan
As Dec US/20-1/100 is "applicable in US only", would you say that if a player eliminates the first step (marking the ball) and measures simply one clubhead to the side, breaches Rule 24-1 in the R&A area? John Paul
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In Match Play this situation arose which I would like clarification please. It was a Four-Ball Match play. My opponent and I were both on the green (the other two out of it). I had played four and him two and he was to play. He putted up and past the hole and stopped just inside my marker. I asked him to mark it ( I hoped we could escape with a half if I got my my five and he had a bit of pressure for his four) and he said he would finish. I said again mark it but he putted out anyway. I claimed the hole as he played out of turn. This caused a big argument as none of the other three had heard of this "rule". We lost anyway but I had been told this "rule" but cannot find it in my abbreviated book. If someone can clarify it I will pin it to the club noticeboard. Thanks.
My Understanding, You can force him to replay his shot. If he refuses to replay, then and only then you win the hole.
In Match Play this situation arose which I would like clarification please. It was a Four-Ball Match play. My opponent and I were both on the green (the other two out of it). I had played four and him two and he was to play. He putted up and past the hole and stopped just inside my marker. I asked him to mark it ( I hoped we could escape with a half if I got my my five and he had a bit of pressure for his four) and he said he would finish. I said again mark it but he putted out anyway. I claimed the hole as he played out of turn. This caused a big argument as none of the other three had heard of this "rule". We lost anyway but I had been told this "rule" but cannot find it in my abbreviated book. If someone can clarify it I will pin it to the club noticeboard. Thanks.
First of all, get a full version of the Rules, it’s very cheap. Take a copy of Rule 10-1c and pin it on the board. It’s one of the most important rules in match play. Since your opponent elected to play his stroke instead of marking it you have the option to request the opponent to replay the stroke without penalty. If you do this and he refuses to replay you can claim the hole. Jan
In Match Play this situation arose which I would like clarification please. It was a Four-Ball Match play. My opponent and I were both on the green (the other two out of it). I had played four and him two and he was to play. He putted up and past the hole and stopped just inside my marker. I asked him to mark it ( I hoped we could escape with a half if I got my my five and he had a bit of pressure for his four) and he said he would finish. I said again mark it but he putted out anyway. I claimed the hole as he played out of turn. This caused a big argument as none of the other three had heard of this "rule". We lost anyway but I had been told this "rule" but cannot find it in my abbreviated book. If someone can clarify it I will pin it to the club noticeboard. Thanks.
It was a Four-Ball Match play. <<snipped I asked him to mark it ( I hoped we could escape with a half if I got my my five and he had a bit of pressure for his four) and he said he would finish. I said again mark it but he putted out anyway. I claimed the hole as he played out of turn. This caused a big argument as none of the other three had heard of this "rule".
Check Rule 10-1c. Refer to Decision 10-1c/2. If you requested that your opponent mark his ball, and he putts, you may require that he replay the stroke in correct order. If the request is made, and opponent refuses to replay his putt, he never completes the hole. In that case you would win the hole. Ric Stofflet
In Match Play this situation arose which I would like clarification please. It was a Four-Ball Match play. My opponent and I were both on the green (the other two out of it). I had played four and him two and he was to play. He putted up and past the hole and stopped just inside my marker. I asked him to mark it ( I hoped we could escape with a half if I got my my five and he had a bit of pressure for his four) and he said he would finish. I said again mark it but he putted out anyway. I claimed the hole as he played out of turn. This caused a big argument as none of the other three had heard of this "rule". We lost anyway but I had been told this "rule" but cannot find it in my abbreviated book. If someone can clarify it I will pin it to the club noticeboard. Thanks.
Unless I’m mistaken, you are ALWAYS allowed to putt out when your previous stroke was played from the putting green no matter whether you are away or not. David Ober jjjjjjjjjjjj j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j
In Match Play this situation arose which I would like clarification please. It was a Four-Ball Match play. My opponent and I were both on the green (the other two out of it). I had played four and him two and he was to play. He putted up and past the hole and stopped just inside my marker. I asked him to mark it ( I hoped we could escape with a half if I got my my five and he had a bit of pressure for his four) and he said he would finish. I said again mark it but he putted out anyway. I claimed the hole as he played out of turn.
No, this claim is not valid. If a player (in match play) plays out of turn, you _may_ require the opponent to replay the shot, but there is no penalty, and the out of turn stroke does not count. (Rule 10-1c). (So if he makes the putt, make him putt again, but if he misses, let the stroke count!) Again, to summarize, a claim for a hole because your opponent played out of turn (which is what he did in this case) is not valid, because Rule 10-1/c specifies a different procedure. This caused a big argument as none of the other three had heard of this "rule". We lost anyway but I had been told this "rule" but cannot find it in my abbreviated book. If someone can clarify it I will pin it to the club noticeboard. Thanks.
However, Rule 22 "Ball Interfering with or Assisting Play" is another relevant Rule. It is what allowed you to ask your opponent to mark in the first place. In _stroke play_, the player may play instead of marking, but NOT in match play, so your opponent DID play out of turn. So, one question I have is, after your claim, did the opponent replace his ball, mark it, let you play, then hole out? If he did, there is absolutely no claim. Even if he did not replace, I would _not_ honor your claim. Decision 2-5/2 outlines the Procedure for a Valid Claim. Your claim of the hole because the player did not mark is not valid. However, _IF_ you had requested the player to replay his stroke, and he refused, you would have a valid claim, as your opponent would not have holed out, under the Rules. The decisions make it clear that in order for a claim to be valid, the person making the claim must make make at least somewhat the "correct" claim, i.e., replay the ball is correct, the hole is not. This situation is a bit of a gray area. Any other "Rulies" care to comment? (Linda? Steve?) — Ron Sercely HP/CXTC Toolsmith
In Match Play this situation arose which I would like clarification please. It was a Four-Ball Match play. My opponent and I were both on the green (the other two out of it). I had played four and him two and he was to play. He putted up and past the hole and stopped just inside my marker. I asked him to mark it ( I hoped we could escape with a half if I got my my five and he had a bit of pressure for his four) and he said he would finish. I said again mark it but he putted out anyway. I claimed the hole as he played out of
turn. See rule 10-1. I think you were "half" right (is that like half pregnant?). The ball furthest from the hole must be played first, but if a player plays out of turn, you do not win the hole. You can make the player replay the shot without penalty. Glenn
In the USGA Rules, there is a Note on Rule 20-1 that says, in part: If the ball-marker interferes with the play, stance, or stroke of another player, it should be placed one or more clubhead- lengths to one side. I’m not sure this is true worldwide. More to the point, there is a US-ONLY Decision against this rule, dealing with the procedure for so marking. Reading between the lines of the Decision: - The absolutely correct way is to place the mark behind the ball, then move the mark by a clubhead length. - A usually-correct way is the way Heikki describes. The difference is an optional local rule in Appendix I. The Decision is US/20-1/100 (probably not in the R&A version of the Decisions).
The note in the R&A version of Rule 20-1 is the same. There is no optional Local Rule entitled Marking Position of Lifted Ball in the R&A version and AFAIK there is no Decision on the matter (don’t have the Decisions handy for the moment). My conclusion is that in R&A areas an interfering ball shall be marked properly and then move the marker one or more clubheads. If the ball isn’t interfering then you can mark it with whatever you like. Jan
… deleted You are correct Dave Decision US/20-1/100 is indeed one of the _VERY_ few differences between USGA and R&A decisions. The USGA decision allows for the simple, place the marker to the side of the ball, instead of the R&A two step, of placing the marker, then moving the marker to the side. Similarly, the PGA has a Rule that states that the ball _must_ be marked with a small round object. (Golf rules say mark with "… a small coin or other similar object…") A year or so ago, a pro got on the first green, did not have a ball marker, so used his room key. This was judged a violation of the PGA rule. Note, this is why it is NOT a penalty (unless playing PGA Rules), to use a tee, or the putter head, or almost anything else you can think of ( there is a decision on using a Daisy) to mark the ball location. — Ron Sercely HP/CXTC Toolsmith
In Match Play this situation arose which I would like clarification please. It was a Four-Ball Match play. My opponent and I were both on the green (the other two out of it). I had played four and him two and he was to play. He putted up and past the hole and stopped just inside my marker. I asked him to mark it ( I hoped we could escape with a half if I got my my five and he had a bit of pressure for his four) and he said he would finish. I said again mark it but he putted out anyway. I claimed the hole as he played out of turn. This caused a big argument as none of the other three had heard of this "rule". We lost anyway but I had been told this "rule" but cannot find it in my abbreviated book. If someone can clarify it I will pin it to the club noticeboard. Thanks.
At risk of getting flamed again, BUY A RULEBOOK! They’re only $1 (or free with a USGA membership), and they’re the REAL rules. That said, this isn’t quite as obvious to find in the rules as, say, whether you can clean your ball on the green, so here’s how to find it: Rule 10 – Order of play. Rule 10-1 deals with match play and rule 10-2 deals with stroke play. The relevant difference here is that: - In stroke play, there’s no penalty for playing out of turn. (So "continuous putting", though not strictly legal, carries no penalty. It’s a "fast play" plus, and a lot of folks do it, including the pros.) - In match play, if your opponent plays out of turn, you can insist he/she abandon that ball and re-play the shot — IN TURN. There was a major brouhaha over this between Seve Ballesteros and Tom Lehman over this in the last Ryder Cup. Anybody who watched that would have NO DOUBT what the ruling is in your situation. You should be able to take it from here, and find the rest of the rules that say your opponent MUST mark and wait. Cheers! Dave
says… I’m not sure this is true worldwide. More to the point, there is a US-ONLY Decision against this rule, dealing with the procedure for so marking. Reading between the lines of the Decision: – The absolutely correct way is to place the mark behind the ball, then move the mark by a clubhead length. – A usually-correct way is the way Heikki describes. The difference is an optional local rule in Appendix I. The Decision is US/20-1/100 (probably not in the R&A version of the Decisions).
It is the R&A defined way as well. SteveR
Dear golfers I have a question to which I have not found a clear (to me) aswer from rules or decisions. It concerns placing the ball marker on green. When the ball marker when placed normally behind the ball will be hindering another players stance or stroke is it allowed to: place the putter head beside the ball and place the marker beside the putter head. Graphically ball putter martker Thak you in adwance HPu — Heikki I Putkonen, University of Oulu/TOL | TTTTT OOO L | snail: Linnanmaa, SF-90570 OULU 57, Finland | T OOO LLLL |
I have a question to which I have not found a clear (to me) aswer from rules or decisions. It concerns placing the ball marker on green. When the ball marker when placed normally behind the ball will be hindering another players stance or stroke is it allowed to: place the putter head beside the ball and place the marker beside the putter head.
In the USGA Rules, there is a Note on Rule 20-1 that says, in part: If the ball-marker interferes with the play, stance, or stroke of another player, it should be placed one or more clubhead- lengths to one side. I’m not sure this is true worldwide. More to the point, there is a US-ONLY Decision against this rule, dealing with the procedure for so marking. Reading between the lines of the Decision: - The absolutely correct way is to place the mark behind the ball, then move the mark by a clubhead length. - A usually-correct way is the way Heikki describes. The difference is an optional local rule in Appendix I. The Decision is US/20-1/100 (probably not in the R&A version of the Decisions). Cheers! Dave
We play 90% match and nassaus… stroke play only in tourney’s. Cody
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 99.99% of golf played is not match play. i would never bother mentioning matchplay circumstances in a rule discussion unless that was the topic. May be true in the States or for Pro golf generally. However, in UK, I reckon 90% or more of a club member’s golf is match play. I would certainly contest joeblake’s declaration…the only medal play that I’ve experienced is an occaisional tournament. Almost ALL personal matches played are Nassaus….match play. "Someone likes every shot" Bobby Knight
99.99% of golf played is not match play. i would never bother mentioning matchplay circumstances in a rule discussion unless that was the topic. May be true in the States or for Pro golf generally. However, in UK, I reckon 90% or more of a club member’s golf is match play.
I would certainly contest joeblake’s declaration…the only medal play that I’ve experienced is an occaisional tournament. Almost ALL personal matches played are Nassaus….match play. "Someone likes every shot" Bobby Knight
<iyou are rightly confused. there is no penalty for moving accidently another players marker. but there is a penalty for using a putter in the way described. (touching line of putt etc)</i Mark, can you quote the relevant rules/decisions you are using? I see rule 16-1: The line of putt must not be touched except: (v) in pressing down a ball marker and I see decision 20-1/7 which gives a one-stroke penalty in matchplay, and I come to the opposite conclusion on both points **** Posted from RemarQ – http://www.remarq.com – Discussions Start Here ™ ****
Mark, can you quote the relevant rules/decisions you are using? I see rule 16-1: The line of putt must not be touched except: (v) in pressing down a ball marker
you are probably right. if i saw a golfer do this and the golf was serious, then i would do a ‘bernhard langer’, as i would consider such actions close to questionable, as the golfer had pressed down hard enough for the marker to stick to the putter, it may seem he had an ulterior motive in doing so. and I see decision 20-1/7 which gives a one-stroke penalty in matchplay, and I come to the opposite conclusion on both points
99.99% of golf played is not match play. i would never bother mentioning matchplay circumstances in a rule discussion unless that was the topic. . Fore Right!, Mark Fairway: [faer-wai] "An unfamiliar tract of mown grass running directly from tee to the green. Your ball can usually be found immediately to the left or right of it." RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/blakem.htm
Is this an "example" type situation? Or was it a real situation..sorry I deleted the original post.
It was a real situation in a club competition round last weekend. Lastly, why didn’t the person who was putting, with his opponents ball marker in his line…ask the person to remark, away from his line to begin with?
I’d say, because it was a 20 foot plus putt, that he didn’t feel it was necessary. Also I think the marker was just bordering his line, so it was just a precautionary tap. — Richard "The way I see things is that we are scratching our heads when our bums are itchy." – Mike Amm, rsru, 8/5/98 replace "leadtogold" with "alchemist" for email
Richard, you’re nearly there but not quite. A ball marker is the equivalent of the ball in this situation. Moving another player’s ball or ball marker comes under rule 18. In stroke play, rule 18-4 says there is no penalty (also 18-1 as a fellow competitor is also an outside agency). In match play there is a one-stroke penalty under 18-3. Rule 20-1 really covers marking your own ball; you will see that the end of the paragraph refers you to rule 18-2a – player’s own ball moved. Your quote in message 18 about rule 16-1(v) covers only <ipressing down</i a marker, but any penalty is applied because the marker was <imoved</i from its original spot, so that’s no relevant either. You had the right answer from Linda (message 15). Blake’s note (message 12) is completely wrong. **** Posted from RemarQ – http://www.remarq.com – Discussions Start Here ™ ****
Hi Richard, You stated: "putting, a player taps down a ball marker on his line." It is not clear if this was his own ball marker or one belonging to another player.
Should imagine another player’s UNLESS he is playing 2 or more balls. SteveR
Hi Richard, You stated: "putting, a player taps down a ball marker on his line." It is not clear if this was his own ball marker or one belonging to another player. Go to: http://www.usga.org/rules/index.html and take a look Rule #20-1. Pay particular attention to the wording "…accidentally moved in the *process* of lifting the ball under a Rule or marking its position…" If he moved his OWN ball marker, see Decision 20-1/6
Linda, Would have thought 20-1/5.5 was more appropriate in this actual case (example given cites player finding own ball marker stuck to sole of shoe after treading on it while assisting partner line up putt). Decision says that once marker is placed it is contemplated that it will remain in place until such time as the ball is replaced. 1 stroke penalty applicable and marker to be replaced as close as possible to original spot. SteveR
99.99% of golf played is not match play. i would never bother mentioning matchplay circumstances in a rule discussion unless that was the topic.
May be true in the States or for Pro golf generally. However, in UK, I reckon 90% or more of a club member’s golf is match play. Competition golf (which really is a small part of golf when you compare the number of golfers in total and the number who participate in competitions, and lessened even more when you compare the number of competition rounds a player who does play comps. plays in comparison to his non-comp golf) is generally the only stroke play type of golf that is done in the UK – requirement for one to compete against many makes matchplay out of the question. Most UK ’social’ golf is matchplay and, in a fourball, not one player would even THINK of playing strokeplay/stableford/etc (unless they were wierd, of course :) ). Matchplay is the UK golfer’s staple diet. SteveR
I am a little confused here, as usual If I accidentally move someone else’s marker and replace it as close to the original spot as possible, do I still get the one stroke penalty!?
you are rightly confused. there is no penalty for moving accidently another players marker. but there is a penalty for using a putter in the way described. (touching line of putt etc) Fore Right!, Mark Fairway: [faer-wai] "An unfamiliar tract of mown grass running directly from tee to the green. Your ball can usually be found immediately to the left or right of it." RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/blakem.htm
You stated: "putting, a player taps down a ball marker on his line." It is not clear if this was his own ball marker or one belonging to another player. It was a ball marker on his line, that is, between his ball and the hole. An opponents marker.
Is this an "example" type situation? Or was it a real situation..sorry I deleted the original post. Lastly, why didn’t the person who was putting, with his opponents ball marker in his line…ask the person to remark, away from his line to begin with? Thanks for the directions – I had a look at the decisions, and my conclusion is that a one-shot penalty should have been imposed. Basically because the ball-marker was moved, NOT in the process of marking or replacing the ball.
Roger…. I am not a complete idiot…some parts are missing. web page at: http://members.tripod.com/~Motordawg/index.html
You stated: "putting, a player taps down a ball marker on his line." It is not clear if this was his own ball marker or one belonging to another player.
It was a ball marker on his line, that is, between his ball and the hole. An opponents marker. Thanks for the directions – I had a look at the decisions, and my conclusion is that a one-shot penalty should have been imposed. Basically because the ball-marker was moved, NOT in the process of marking or replacing the ball. — Richard "The way I see things is that we are scratching our heads when our bums are itchy." – Mike Amm, rsru, 8/5/98 replace "leadtogold" with "alchemist" for email
off the top you might look at using the putter to tap obstructions on your line, which i also a no no and cost a stroke.
From http://www.RandA.org: Rule 16-1. General a. Touching Line of Putt The line of putt must not be touched except: (i) the player may move sand and loose soil on the putting green and other loose impediments by picking them up or by brushing them aside with his hand or a club without pressing anything down; (ii) in addressing the ball, the player may place the club in front of the ball without pressing anything down; (iii) in measuring – Rule 10-4; (iv) in lifting the ball – Rule 16-1b; (v) in pressing down a ball-marker; (vi) in repairing old hole plugs or ball marks on the putting green – Rule 16-1c; and (vii) in removing movable obstructions – Rule 24-1 So according to Rule 16-1a(v), there would be no penalty imposed for tapping down a ball marker on the line of putt. — Richard "The way I see things is that we are scratching our heads when our bums are itchy." – Mike Amm, rsru, 8/5/98 replace "leadtogold" with "alchemist" for email
Saturday was beautiful…met the rest of the players at a roadside grub shop…I did not partake (thankfully..see more later). We tee’d off..and took a bogey on the first hole..eh, ok. Second hole; par 3..backed the ball nearly into the cup..birdie..ok, back to level par. The rest of the dang day was like that…IF I got off the tee..I would push left or right of the Green, but made it in. IF I did NOT get off the tee nicely..I’d did get GIR ??? I could not figure it out…lots of scrambling..but it all fell into place. Shot an 80 (Islands West-Hilton Head SC) Nicest thing of the day..I was the only one that did not get sick from eating the chow … Second nicest thing…I nailed one..it was one of those drives that you don’t EVEN feel come off the driver face, it was a beauty…you know what I mean..it is THE one that makes you come back for more! Lipped out the birdie..but that was ok too. Hot..muggy..but tolerable. Made the round in 4 hours. Don’t ya just love this game? (waving machine guns and chanting anti-goverment slogans, while burning effigies of Clinton are still second to a really good round though!) Roger…. I am not a complete idiot…some parts are missing. web page at: http://members.tripod.com/~Motordawg/index.html
Hi Richard, You stated: "putting, a player taps down a ball marker on his line." It is not clear if this was his own ball marker or one belonging to another player. Go to: http://www.usga.org/rules/index.html and take a look Rule #20-1. Pay particular attention to the wording "…accidentally moved in the *process* of lifting the ball under a Rule or marking its position…" If he moved his OWN ball marker, see Decision 20-1/6 If he moved an OPPONENT’S marker, see Decision 20-1/7 If he moved a FELLOW COMPETITOR’S marker, see Decision 20-1/9 Hope this helps. Linda B. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Before putting, a player taps down a ball marker on his line. The ball marker sticks to the bottom of his putter, and he moves away a foor or so before he realises this. He replaces the marker as close as possible to it’s original position, to everyone’s satisfaction, then goes back and plays his putt. What penalty, if any, should have been applied? I can’t see any mention of this situation in the rules or decisions as provided on the usga web pages. TIA — Richard "The way I see things is that we are scratching our heads when our bums are itchy." – Mike Amm, rsru, 8/5/98 replace "leadtogold" with "alchemist" for email
– WORDS Keep ‘em soft & sweet…… Some day you may have to eat them! – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – Earl & Linda
Absolutely mystifies me. Maybe the dazzling sunlight had something to do with it. Maybe we weren’t used to coming out of hibernation so early. Maybe we were all so revelling in the winter warmth we just relaxed off the scorecard. 
Happened to me too Colin!!..first round of of KO Matchplay….got an absolute drubbing..lost 5 and 4….against a player giving me 7 shots!! seemed to be 7 down throughout the field! Our weather similar to yours…air quite cold and heavy….but brilliant sunshine throughout the day…..it could have been mid summer. I thought for a while that the players could have been fooled by the fine weather into discarding warm clothing etc. and that this was causing bodily tension throughout the field!….I played on for the final few holes after I had lost my match…..restored my warm clothing….and started to hit screamers down the middle and chip and putt like a champion…alas, too late for the matchplay!!! Warm clothing….something to think about if you are tempted to strip off in the winter sun! David
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i’ll quote the relevant rule when i get my hands on my rule book. I think I’ve found it! Not under "Rule 16. The Putting Green" which I was silly enough to concentrate on, but under "Rule 20. Lifting, Dropping and Placing; Playing from Wrong Place", where it says: "If a ball or ball-marker is accidentally moved in the process of lifting the ball under a Rule or marking its position, the ball or the ball-marker shall be replaced. There is no penalty provided the movement of the ball or the ball-marker is directly attributable to the specific act of marking the position of or lifting the ball. Otherwise, the player shall incur a penalty stroke under this Rule or Rule 18-2a." So looks like a single shot penalty.
<snipped I am a little confused here, as usual If I accidentally move someone else’s marker and replace it as close to the original spot as possible, do I still get the one stroke penalty!? It seems that this rule is referring to the movement and replacement of my ball marker. I am sure that I am wrong here and Dan, or Randy will be glad to correct me, however, I do not see where a stroke penalty should be incurred here. David
Before putting, a player taps down a ball marker on his line. The ball marker sticks to the bottom of his putter, and he moves away a foor or so before he realises this. He replaces the marker as close as possible to it’s original position, to everyone’s satisfaction, then goes back and plays his putt. What penalty, if any, should have been applied? I can’t see any mention of this situation in the rules or decisions as provided on the usga web pages.
My apologies if you have found the answer to this one already but have a look at Decision 20-1/6. It covers this identical situation. — Pat Williams Work is a pastime for those who have not discovered the game of golf.
the weekend wasn’t bad luck by any stretch of the imagination though unfortunately 
i can’t remember ever being beaten so badly. argh …. why do i play this frustrating game!!!!!! The same reason the rest of us do. I managed to get only a single satisfactory drive off yesterday, yet scrambled together my best score in 2 months to win the comp. Sometimes you feel you had an ordinary round but play to handicap, then other times you hit the ball sweetly but can’t seem to score.
I’ve just had the worst weekend of golf for at least 12 months. Shot 90 on Saturday for the first time in at least a year, and lost pennant 7 and 6 on Sunday, an absolute drubbing. Couldn’t hit a fairway or a GIR, and missed at least eight putts of 3-5 feet. Got four pars for the whole weekend. And it wasn’t only me. The monthly medal winner on Saturday came in with a 69 nett (Par 70, ACR67) and 72 nett got a ball. For the first time since I’ve played at Trentham, the CCR was 70. Was it the conditions? It was the most perfect mid-winter weekend I’ve ever had here. Not a cloud in the sky, not a breath of wind, and 16 degrees C (62 F). The greens were fast, but not *that* fast. Absolutely mystifies me. Maybe the dazzling sunlight had something to do with it. Maybe we weren’t used to coming out of hibernation so early. Maybe we were all so revelling in the winter warmth we just relaxed off the scorecard. Cheers Colin Wilson Trentham Golf Club – http://publishing.kyneton.net.au/trentham RSG Roll Call – http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/wilsonc.htm
i’ll quote the relevant rule when i get my hands on my rule book.
I think I’ve found it! Not under "Rule 16. The Putting Green" which I was silly enough to concentrate on, but under "Rule 20. Lifting, Dropping and Placing; Playing from Wrong Place", where it says: "If a ball or ball-marker is accidentally moved in the process of lifting the ball under a Rule or marking its position, the ball or the ball-marker shall be replaced. There is no penalty provided the movement of the ball or the ball-marker is directly attributable to the specific act of marking the position of or lifting the ball. Otherwise, the player shall incur a penalty stroke under this Rule or Rule 18-2a." So looks like a single shot penalty. the weekend wasn’t bad luck by any stretch of the imagination though unfortunately i can’t remember ever being beaten so badly. argh …. why do i play this frustrating game!!!!!!
The same reason the rest of us do. I managed to get only a single satisfactory drive off yesterday, yet scrambled together my best score in 2 months to win the comp. Sometimes you feel you had an ordinary round but play to handicap, then other times you hit the ball sweetly but can’t seem to score. Does this mean Riverlands will still be Division 5 next year? — Richard "The way I see things is that we are scratching our heads when our bums are itchy." – Mike Amm, rsru, 8/5/98 replace "leadtogold" with "alchemist" for email
off the top you might look at using the putter to tap obstructions on your line, which i also a no no and cost a stroke.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Before putting, a player taps down a ball marker on his line. The ball marker sticks to the bottom of his putter, and he moves away a foor or so before he realises this. He replaces the marker as close as possible to it’s original position, to everyone’s satisfaction, then goes back and plays his putt. What penalty, if any, should have been applied? I can’t see any mention of this situation in the rules or decisions as provided on the usga web pages. TIA — Richard "The way I see things is that we are scratching our heads when our bums are itchy." – Mike Amm, rsru, 8/5/98 replace "leadtogold" with "alchemist" for email
funny enough i got asked the same question in a competition a couple of weeks ago. it is covered in the r&a rule book.
Thanks Brett, I couldn’t see anything specific in the rule book, but I’ll go back and double check. Bad luck on the weekend by the way. — Richard "The way I see things is that we are scratching our heads when our bums are itchy." – Mike Amm, rsru, 8/5/98 replace "leadtogold" with "alchemist" for email
Thanks Brett, I couldn’t see anything specific in the rule book, but I’ll go back and double check. Bad luck on the weekend by the way.
i’ll quote the relevant rule when i get my hands on my rule book. the weekend wasn’t bad luck by any stretch of the imagination though unfortunately i can’t remember ever being beaten so badly. argh …. why do i play this frustrating game!!!!!! brett
Before putting, a player taps down a ball marker on his line. The ball marker sticks to the bottom of his putter, and he moves away a foor or so before he realises this. He replaces the marker as close as possible to it’s original position, to everyone’s satisfaction, then goes back and plays his putt. What penalty, if any, should have been applied? I can’t see any mention of this situation in the rules or decisions as provided on the usga web pages. TIA — Richard "The way I see things is that we are scratching our heads when our bums are itchy." – Mike Amm, rsru, 8/5/98 replace "leadtogold" with "alchemist" for email
Before putting, a player taps down a ball marker on his line. The ball marker sticks to the bottom of his putter, and he moves away a foor or so before he realises this. He replaces the marker as close as possible to it’s original position, to everyone’s satisfaction, then goes back and plays his putt.
funny enough i got asked the same question in a competition a couple of weeks ago. it is covered in the r&a rule book. can’t remember the specifics off the top of my head but it’s something along the lines of: 1. you are only not penalized if you are in the process of placing or removing the ball. 2. anything else i think is a one stroke penalty, and you place the ball as close as possible to where it was marked. i could be wrong on the 1 stroke bit (it might be 2) but you can check it easy enough in the rules book. regards brett
I called the USGA and got forwarded to the coordinator of the rules department, Donna Anderson. I asked her two questions about qualifying and the championships proper: Are contestants allowed to use pull-carts? She said that it is up to the host club. Are caddies allowed to ride in carts? Also up to the host club. So, I plan on calling the course a couple of weeks before the qualifier and see what they say. I can almost guarantee you they won’t have a straight answer, but you never know. feech
www.usga.org and look at the application for the specifics of the competitions. The 2002 US Open says "Players shall walk at all times during a stipulated round" and there is a section on caddies.
I’m not sure that clears anything up. I take that as meaning pull carts ARE allowed as long as you walk. I plan on calling the USGA this week to find out the real answer. Also, are caddies allowed to ride powered carts if the player walks? I saw at least one caddy do this in Public Links qualifying last year, but I’m still not sure it’s allowed. In my two qualifying attempts (last year’s PubLinx (barely missed) and Amateur) I’ve never seen anyone use a pull/push cart. My normal caddy isn’t going to be available this summer, and it’s hard enough for me to walk 36 without the bag in the Texas heat. My new Speed Cart would be very helpful. I found it interesting that you are allowed to ride in powered carts in all Texas Golf Association events, including the Texas State Amateur and its qualifying. That was a nice surprise since I showed up the morning of qualifying ready to lug my bag for 18 holes. Not necessary, but nice. For 36 holes, it’s almost necessary for my out of shape body. I’ll post here after I call the USGA. feech
I do know that for Senior US Open Qualifying the caddy can ride the cart. The player will be disqualified if he even leans against the cart. I’ve emailed USGA so one of us should have an answer soon. If you get a response my "speed cart" if allowed. Thanks — Bob Dye Still Hacking Away Putting them all in, no mulligans
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – www.usga.org and look at the application for the specifics of the competitions. The 2002 US Open says "Players shall walk at all times during a stipulated round" and there is a section on caddies. I’m not sure that clears anything up. I take that as meaning pull carts ARE allowed as long as you walk. I plan on calling the USGA this week to find out the real answer. Also, are caddies allowed to ride powered carts if the player walks? I saw at least one caddy do this in Public Links qualifying last year, but I’m still not sure it’s allowed. In my two qualifying attempts (last year’s PubLinx (barely missed) and Amateur) I’ve never seen anyone use a pull/push cart. My normal caddy isn’t going to be available this summer, and it’s hard enough for me to walk 36 without the bag in the Texas heat. My new Speed Cart would be very helpful. I found it interesting that you are allowed to ride in powered carts in all Texas Golf Association events, including the Texas State Amateur and its qualifying. That was a nice surprise since I showed up the morning of qualifying ready to lug my bag for 18 holes. Not necessary, but nice. For 36 holes, it’s almost necessary for my out of shape body. I’ll post here after I call the USGA. feech
www.usga.org and look at the application for the specifics of the competitions. The 2002 US Open says "Players shall walk at all times during a stipulated round" and there is a section on caddies.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve looked through both the decisions and the rules of the USGA and I’m unable to find any reference to the use of pull carts in USGA championships, either qualifying or the tournament itself. Do any of you have a reference that would permit or deny the use of a pull cart? Thanks — Bob Dye Still Hacking Away Putting them all in, no mulligans
I’ve looked through both the decisions and the rules of the USGA and I’m unable to find any reference to the use of pull carts in USGA championships, either qualifying or the tournament itself. Do any of you have a reference that would permit or deny the use of a pull cart?
You would normally find this information in the ‘Conditions of Competition’ for a particular tournament (or, in the case of the PGA their standing ‘Conditions of Competion’) but it is not a ‘Rule of Golf’. I have never seen a ‘Condition’ that bars the use of pull carts, but there is often a condition that bars the use of any ‘ride-on’ motorised cart or bike unless there is convincing medical evidence that necessitates it. In pro competitions I understand that caddies prefer to carry the bag, as this is far more convenient for them…particularly in situations involving gallery crowds. I have seen many pro comps where the players without caddies will use pull carts! I have even seen one (Victorian Open in Oz) where a pro-player used a remote controlled caddie cart (a Dynamis). More often than not pull carts are common on the first two days ‘qualifying’ rounds of a pro comp. cheers david
[Tom Fenton] :www.usga.org and look at the application for the specifics of the :competitions. : :The 2002 US Open says "Players shall walk at all times during a stipulated :round" and there is a section on caddies. That doesn’t specify whether or not the caddy must carry the clubs or pull them along in a cart, though. Supposing the caddy has a backache, he/she/it could pull the clubs along, it seems to me. — Bryan S. Slick, bryan at slick-family dot net "To those who preserve it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
Bob Dye asked:<< I’ve looked through both the decisions and the rules of the USGA and I’m unable to find any reference to the use of pull carts in USGA championships, either qualifying or the tournament itself. Do any of you have a reference that would permit or deny the use of a pullcart? Thanks This would be included in "The Conditions of the Competition" for the specific event. Most likely available with an entry form.
Wendy, so absent any specific reference can I assume that a pull cart is allowabel? — Bob Dye Still Hacking Away Putting them all in, no mulligans – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
I’ve looked through both the decisions and the rules of the USGA and I’m unable to find any reference to the use of pull carts in USGA championships, either qualifying or the tournament itself. Do any of you have a reference that would permit or deny the use of a pull cart? Thanks — Bob Dye Still Hacking Away Putting them all in, no mulligans
Bob Dye asked:<< I’ve looked through both the decisions and the rules of the USGA and I’m unable to find any reference to the use of pull carts in USGA championships, either qualifying or the tournament itself. Do any of you have a reference that would permit or deny the use of a pullcart? Thanks This would be included in "The Conditions of the Competition" for the specific event. Most likely available with an entry form.
I also don’t see any problem with allowing a two club length drop from the point where a ball left the grass for the desert. All it is doing is making the desert lateral hazard.
No, if it were a lateral hazard then you would get a one stroke penalty. On a little more reflection, that might be the correct penalty. The USGA Decisions comment on cases where ocean and beach are ruled "through the green," which in many cases makes the penalty for hitting off the grass more severe than a lateral hazard. The gist of the decision is that there is no basis for such a local rule. Methinks that desert, which is frequently a source of *completely unplayable* lies and/or lost balls, should receive similar treatment. One thing to contemplate is that the current breed of target desert courses really began around 1984 with Desert Highlands (Nicklaus), and it is only in the past few years that really wicked target courses where the desert is always lurking– as in, large fingers of desert protruding into fairways–have become more common. If you think that finding and/or retrieving a ball hit into "desert" isn’t such a big deal, you need to see some for yourself. :-) Especially on a course where every bush is making some sort of noise. ;-| -joseph
It would seem that had the
ball hit the forecaddy in the head and bounced back into the fairway it would have been in play. << Boy, talk about taking one for the team! (g). — Tinnitus faq: http://www.cccd.edu/faq/tinnitus.html hyperacusis: http://www.visi.com/~minuet/hearing/hyperacusis/hacusis.html hazell’s habituation therapy: http://www.tinnitus.org
You are always allowed to hit another ball and abandon the first one.<< There is a caveat in hitting a second ball. You could end up back at the tee. For example, I believe if you hit a provisional for a OB ball, and then find it inbounds but unplayable, I don’t believe you can play the second ball already hit off the tee.
That’s correct. Personally, I don’t think it makes any sense to send someone back to the tee. If the USGA adopted a rule for OB/lost ball/ unplayable that allowed you to drop a ball anywhere on the line that the ball traveled with a TWO stroke penalty, that would be a reasonable thing in these days of slow play. Out here a number of courses sanction a (completely bogus) "desert rule" that allows you to drop with a 1 stroke penalty within 2 clublengths of where the ball crosses the grass line into the desert. Nobody likes to lose balls but this could definitely be abused–just absolutely positively murder your driver on a par 5 and if it leaves the course, you’re still hitting 3 within one shot range. The penalty needs to be 2 strokes. With courses becoming more complex and incorporating more penal features, something like this wouldn’t be such a bad thing for the average golfer. -joseph
says… Here’s one I didn’t know till I read it recently: Your caddy is acting as a forecaddy and standing out of bounds. You hit your tee shot and it goes out of bounds, hits the caddy, and stays out of bounds. What shot are you now hitting from the tee?
You don’t hit another – it was match play and you’ve lost the hole!! :) If it was strokeplay you’d be hitting 5 (2 penalties for hitting caddy, 1 penalty for OB, + 1 for original stroke played). SteveR
Your caddy is acting as a forecaddy and standing out of bounds. You hit your tee shot and it goes out of bounds, hits the caddy, and stays out of bounds. What shot are you now hitting from the tee? Your third? I believe a forecaddie is considered an outside obstacle
Wow! Another new ‘item’…. SteveR
| Hi Steve, | | Hitting 5 from the tee. | 1 – tee shot | 2 – penalty strokes under Rule 19-2, Ball in Motion Stopped | or Deflected by Player, Partner, Caddie or Equipment | 1 – penalty stroke under Rule 27-1 Ball Lost or OB | Total – lying 4. | | However, may I cite Rule 19-1: | | "If a ball in motion is accidentally deflected or stopped by any outside agency, | it is a rub of the green, no penalty is incurred, and the ball shall be played | as it lies . . ." | | And, under the USGA’s definitions: | | "An outside agency is any agency not part of the match, or, in stroke play, not | part of the competitor’s side, and includes a referee, a marker, an observer and | a forecaddie." | | It appears a distinction may have to be made between the player’s own caddie who | is serving as a forecaddie and his opponent’s caddie who is filling that role. | However, the rule sure doesn’t seem to be all that clear about it. | | However, I also would like to see a citation of the rule that permits additional | penalties to be levied on a ball hit out of bounds. By definition it would seem | that a ball no longer on the course (i.e. out of bounds) cannot be considered in | play. However, in the definition for Out of Bounds: "A ball is out of bounds when all of it *lies* out of bounds." I suppose one could make the case that the ball isn’t out of bounds until it stops moving and all of it is out of bounds. It would seem that had the ball hit the forecaddy in the head and bounced back into the fairway it would have been in play. Woody
says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The player realizes the ball is unplayable and that his best option is simply to re-tee.<< If he’s under a bush 50 yds off the tee he may very well be able to take an unplayable lie at that spot and gain 50 yds. However, without a rule book open in front of me, he can’t change balls unless it is declared unplayable, and would then fall under the requirements for declaring a ball unplayable. If he hits it from the tee before going to look at it, he could hit another ball. However, this raises an interesting point: how does he know it’s his ball? I don’t believe he can identify the ball as his from 50 yards. For example, could there have been another ball at the location? Here is an example: One hits a ball into a fir tree and it stays there 20 feet up. Everyone see it go into the tree. Can the player take an unplayable lie and play from the area? Again, I don’t have a rule book in front of me but I believe that unless he positively identifies the ball, he has to go back to the tee and play a lost ball. — Tinnitus faq: http://www.cccd.edu/faq/tinnitus.html hyperacusis: http://www.visi.com/~minuet/hearing/hyperacusis/hacusis.html hazell’s habituation therapy: http://www.tinnitus.org
You ALWAYS have the choice of re-playing a stroke (under stroke & distance penalty) regardless of whereever the original ball is. You cannot declare an unidentified ball unplayable… SteveR
However, I also would like to see a citation of the rule that permits
additional penalties to be levied on a ball hit out of bounds. By definition it would seem that a ball no longer on the course (i.e. out of bounds) cannot be considered in play.<< I agree with you Don. i’ll look at the next issue of Golf Magazine and see if any rebuttals are written into the editor. I say the ball crossed the "in play" zone and is out of play, so no other penalty for hitting your own "blind" caddy should apply (g). But that makes me think of another problem with that. One can’t say it is dead when it goes OB and is still moving, else it coming back inbounds, e.g. tree, rock, landscape, would mean it would have to be consideredout, yet it is in. We know that isn’t the way it works. I find it quite interesting where the logic – or lack of as I see it – was applied to this. Perhaps we haven’t thought of a scenario yet. Wait, what about this one? Your caddy has gone forward as you try to hit a big drive over a lake. The ball carries the lake – big advantage – yet it is now headed OB. You are in a better position if allowed to lie three over the lake via your caddy "accidentally" allowing it to hit him and stay inbounds, and incurring a two stroke penalty. Now, I can see that being a reason since the caddy allowed the ball back inbounds while of course, never admitting it was intentional. But what happens if the caddy is inbounds to start and prevents the ball from going OB? Then I’d say with obvious intention, the player would lie only three. p.s. I’m getting drain bamage. — Tinnitus faq: http://www.cccd.edu/faq/tinnitus.html hyperacusis: http://www.visi.com/~minuet/hearing/hyperacusis/hacusis.html hazell’s habituation therapy: http://www.tinnitus.org
says… You ALWAYS have the choice of re-playing a stroke (under stroke & distance penalty) regardless of whereever the original ball is.<< Do you have a rule number handy on that one?
Don’t think there is one particular Rule but ALL penalty_relief options allow the stroke_&_distance penalty. Thus: 1. Out of Bounds: Mandatory S&D penalty 2. Ball unplayable (covers all areas of course except in water hazards) Player declared. S&D penalty appliable. 3. Ball in water hazard: S&D penalty appliable. Also Decision 28/1 states that a player may declare any ball unplayable anywhere on the course without locating or identifying it but that the only penalty option is S&D, the other options requiring the location and identification of the original ball (ie what you are doing when taking three-off-the-tee). Thus even a ball that MAY be in a water hazard may be declared unplayable. A ball DEFINATELY in a water hazard would still give a S&D penalty as one of it’s relief options. NOW PROBABLY THE BEST ONE:…. Decision 27/17, "In general, if a player after playing a stroke plays another ball under a stroke-and-distance procedure, the original ball is lost and the other ball is the ball in play under penalty of stroke-and-distance". Thus, by just the act of dropping a ball at the point from which the last stroke was played (and NOT declaring it to be provisional), the original is deemed ‘lost’, and the ball just dropped automatically becomes the substituted ball in play with the stroke and distance penalty applied. SteveR
You ALWAYS have the choice of re-playing a stroke (under stroke & distance
penalty) regardless of whereever the original ball is.<< Do you have a rule number handy on that one? I’m a little rusty on this one – 3 yrs of coaching girls little league and little golf will do it. When one takes the above option, the next ball then is in play, PERIOD. It is not provisional in any way, and the ball under said tree need not be the player’s ball. — Tinnitus faq: http://www.cccd.edu/faq/tinnitus.html hyperacusis: http://www.visi.com/~minuet/hearing/hyperacusis/hacusis.html hazell’s habituation therapy: http://www.tinnitus.org
Hi Steve, Hitting 5 from the tee. 1 – tee shot 2 – penalty strokes under Rule 19-2, Ball in Motion Stopped or Deflected by Player, Partner, Caddie or Equipment 1 – penalty stroke under Rule 27-1 Ball Lost or OB Total – lying 4.
However, may I cite Rule 19-1: "If a ball in motion is accidentally deflected or stopped by any outside agency, it is a rub of the green, no penalty is incurred, and the ball shall be played as it lies . . ." And, under the USGA’s definitions: "An outside agency is any agency not part of the match, or, in stroke play, not part of the competitor’s side, and includes a referee, a marker, an observer and a forecaddie." It appears a distinction may have to be made between the player’s own caddie who is serving as a forecaddie and his opponent’s caddie who is filling that role. However, the rule sure doesn’t seem to be all that clear about it. However, I also would like to see a citation of the rule that permits additional penalties to be levied on a ball hit out of bounds. By definition it would seem that a ball no longer on the course (i.e. out of bounds) cannot be considered in play.
Your caddy is acting as a forecaddy and standing out of bounds. You hit your tee shot and it goes out of bounds, hits the caddy, and stays out of bounds. What shot are you now hitting from the tee?
Your third? I believe a forecaddie is considered an outside obstacle and hitting him is considered a rub of the green. Thus, the normal two-stroke penalty for having your ball in motion moved by your caddie is not enforced. Anyway, once the ball has gone out of bounds I’m not sure any further penalties can be imposed on it. Isn’t that enough? <g
Your third?<<
Nope, your fifth. I would have guessed third myself as I thought the ball being OB ended its play. Golf Magazine had it in it’s last issue. — Tinnitus faq: http://www.cccd.edu/faq/tinnitus.html hyperacusis: http://www.visi.com/~minuet/hearing/hyperacusis/hacusis.html hazell’s habituation therapy: http://www.tinnitus.org
Yep, you are hitting 5 off the tee as per an interpretation printed in Golf Magazine. I was surprised; I got it wrong. If you got it right without looking then kudos to you. — Tinnitus faq: http://www.cccd.edu/faq/tinnitus.html hyperacusis: http://www.visi.com/~minuet/hearing/hyperacusis/hacusis.html hazell’s habituation therapy: http://www.tinnitus.org
Man! I would think that once the ball goes out of bounds (unless it comes back) it doesn’t matter what happens after that. It’s just OB and you take the normal penalty. Geesh … this game is tough! T. — Remove "NOSPAM" to email me … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yep, you are hitting 5 off the tee as per an interpretation printed in Golf Magazine. I was surprised; I got it wrong. If you got it right without looking then kudos to you. — Tinnitus faq: http://www.cccd.edu/faq/tinnitus.html hyperacusis: http://www.visi.com/~minuet/hearing/hyperacusis/hacusis.html hazell’s habituation therapy: http://www.tinnitus.org
You are always allowed to hit another ball and abandon the first one.<< There is a caveat in hitting a second ball. You could end up back at the tee. For example, I believe if you hit a provisional for a OB ball, and then find it inbounds but unplayable, I don’t believe you can play the second ball already hit off the tee. If anyone wants to look this up, be my guest.
Right. The rules are sometimes difficult to decode, but a good "rule of thumb" is this: You never Never NEVER have an option of choosing between two already-struck balls. Here’s an even trickier example. A ball is struck from the tee toward a water hazard. However, it cannot be determined that the ball actually entered the hazard, or whether it came to rest in tall weeds short of the hazard. You cannot proceed under rule 26 since you are not sure that the ball entered the hazard (see ruling 26-1/1). You proceed under rule 27 (ball lost outside a water hazard), playing a provisional ball under rule 27-2. When you get to the water hazard, you see your original ball inside the hazard, but marginally playable. Your provisional must immediately be abandoned. Now if you decide that the original ball is not playable, you may proceed under rule 26 and (among other things) may return to the tee for your 3rd shot. However, you may not use your provisional for this purpose. Otherwise, you’d have the forbidden option of choosing between playing the first ball from the hazard, or playing the provisional. I find that a common misunderstanding about provisional balls is that you may play a provisional ball if the original is hit into a water hazard. There is no such option under the rules. If your original ball is hit into a hazard, and you play another ball from the original spot, then that becomes the ball in play and the original is abandoned. Even if you later find that the original is "playable" from within the water hazard, you are not allowed to play it. This is the one place in the rules where there is no "time saving" consideration. If you think that you *might* be able to play the original from within the hazard, then you must go to the ball and investigate. If it turns out that you do not wish to play it (or cannot find it), then you may (among other things) return to the original spot. — M. Dennis Mickunas Department of Computer Science 1304 W. Springfield Ave. University of Illinois Urbana, Illinois 61801 http://www-sal.cs.uiuc.edu/~mickunas
When you get to the water hazard, you see your original
ball inside the hazard, but marginally playable. Your provisional must immediately be abandoned.<< Exactly. The rules have to read closely because of things like this, else a possible DQ could hit you in a tournament. Here’s one I didn’t know till I read it recently: Your caddy is acting as a forecaddy and standing out of bounds. You hit your tee shot and it goes out of bounds, hits the caddy, and stays out of bounds. What shot are you now hitting from the tee? — Tinnitus faq: http://www.cccd.edu/faq/tinnitus.html hyperacusis: http://www.visi.com/~minuet/hearing/hyperacusis/hacusis.html hazell’s habituation therapy: http://www.tinnitus.org
f he hits it from the tee before going to look at it, he could hit
another ball. However, this raises an interesting point: how does he know it’s his ball? I don’t believe he can identify the ball as his from 50 yards. For example, could there have been another ball at the location?<<< This is why I stipulated in the question that the ball was never out of sight and the player was able to follow it visually from the time it left the club until it came to rest. Also, even though the ball went 50 yards, it could come to rest in a position where a two club length drop or dropping it along the line extending from the hole is not going to give him an opportunity to advance the ball as far as he could if he simply rehit from the tee. It is not at all unusual for a golfer to take the stroke and distance penalty for an unplayable lie. John
Hi Steve, Hitting 5 from the tee. 1 – tee shot 2 – penalty strokes under Rule 19-2, Ball in Motion Stopped or Deflected by Player, Partner, Caddie or Equipment 1 – penalty stroke under Rule 27-1 Ball Lost or OB Total – lying 4. Linda B. Here’s one I didn’t know till I read it recently: Your caddy is acting as a forecaddy and standing out of bounds. You hit your tee shot and it goes out of bounds, hits the caddy, and stays out of bounds. What shot are you now hitting from the tee? —
– * Earl and Linda RCGA * * Nova Scotia, Canada Rules Certified *
Hi John, Yes, the stroke and distance penalty allows the player to change balls. Rule 28 – Ball Unplayable says (in part): If a player deems his ball to be unplayable, he shall, under penalty of one stroke: a. Play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played or etc., etc., etc. The *key* here is "A" ball, not "THE" ball. "A" ball being any other than the original and "the" ball being the original. Linda B. A player may declare his ball unplayable at any time and take a stroke and distance penalty. Does this declaration entitle a player to change balls during the play of a hole. Suppose a player hits a low heeler off the tee and the ball rolls under a bush about 50 yards off the tee. The ball is never out of sight so there is no question of a lost ball.. The player realizes the ball is unplayable and that his best option is simply to re-tee. Is the player required to retrieve the original ball since it is recoverable or does the stroke and distance penalty allow him to change balls? John
– * Earl and Linda RCGA * * Nova Scotia, Canada Rules Certified *
yes he may change balls..
Again, I don’t have a rule book in front of me but I believe that unless he positively identifies the ball, he has to go back to the tee and play a lost ball.
Well, you are *always* entitled to take stroke and distance. There are a number of circumstances where stroke and distance can be de facto invoked. One of them is when you hit a ball that might be lost, might be OB, whatever, and just hit another one instead of announcing that you are hitting a provisional, etc. There isn’t necessarily a single rule that allows you to do this, but the decisions are very clear on this point. You are always allowed to hit another ball and abandon the first one. -joseph
You are always allowed
to hit another ball and abandon the first one.<< There is a caveat in hitting a second ball. You could end up back at the tee. For example, I believe if you hit a provisional for a OB ball, and then find it inbounds but unplayable, I don’t believe you can play the second ball already hit off the tee. If anyone wants to look this up, be my guest. — Tinnitus faq: http://www.cccd.edu/faq/tinnitus.html hyperacusis: http://www.visi.com/~minuet/hearing/hyperacusis/hacusis.html hazell’s habituation therapy: http://www.tinnitus.org
A player may declare his ball unplayable at any time and take a stroke and distance penalty. Does this declaration entitle a player to change balls during the play of a hole. Suppose a player hits a low heeler off the tee and the ball rolls under a bush about 50 yards off the tee. The ball is never out of sight so there is no question of a lost ball.. The player realizes the ball is unplayable and that his best option is simply to re-tee. Is the player required to retrieve the original ball since it is recoverable or does the stroke and distance penalty allow him to change balls? John
The player realizes the ball is unplayable and that his best option is simply to re-tee.<<
If he’s under a bush 50 yds off the tee he may very well be able to take an unplayable lie at that spot and gain 50 yds. However, without a rule book open in front of me, he can’t change balls unless it is declared unplayable, and would then fall under the requirements for declaring a ball unplayable. If he hits it from the tee before going to look at it, he could hit another ball. However, this raises an interesting point: how does he know it’s his ball? I don’t believe he can identify the ball as his from 50 yards. For example, could there have been another ball at the location? Here is an example: One hits a ball into a fir tree and it stays there 20 feet up. Everyone see it go into the tree. Can the player take an unplayable lie and play from the area? Again, I don’t have a rule book in front of me but I believe that unless he positively identifies the ball, he has to go back to the tee and play a lost ball. — Tinnitus faq: http://www.cccd.edu/faq/tinnitus.html hyperacusis: http://www.visi.com/~minuet/hearing/hyperacusis/hacusis.html hazell’s habituation therapy: http://www.tinnitus.org
says… 1- A player in my group attends the pin for me but doesn’t pull it and my ball hits the pin… You get a two stroke penalty as long as you allowed him to attend the pin
AND he/she didn’t do it on purpose. If they did it to give you a penalty: they are disqualified. If they did it on purpose but not to give you a penalty (i.e. to stop your ball because you hit the putt to far): they are penalised 2 strokes. (Loss of hole in matchplay) If they just weren’t paying attention: You get penalised two strokes. (LOH-MP) Jim
It sounds like it was three components of ONE scenario. So bottom line, it holes out, but it costs him two additional strokes?
I find that difficult to visualise….the ball hits the pin, then the attendant pulls the pin and the ball hits the hole liner, then the ball falls into the hole!!….how does all that happen without the ball coming to rest before falling into the hole? It does present an interesting situation tho’. Ball hits pin incurring 2 strokes penalty, then on rebound it hits a moving outside agency (entitling the player to cancel the stroke and replay the shot) and then deflects into the hole. The question is, is the ball still in play if it has incurred penalty shot and replay it do the penalty strokes from the cancelled shot stand?? cheers david
1- A player in my group attends the pin for me but doesn’t pull it and my ball hits the pin… You incur a penalty of 2-strokes.. Rule 17-3
I’ve been doing this backwards. I penalized myself 2 strokes when my opponent stood there holding the flag without my explicitly asking him to tend, assuming that if there was an explicit agreement, I wouldn’t be penalized. These rules weren’t written for normal golf where you don’t have teammates or caddies to tend the pin. If an opponent agrees to tend the pin but screws up – it shouldn’t be my fault!!
have teammates or caddies to tend the pin. If an opponent agrees to tend the pin but screws up – it shouldn’t be my fault!! Don’t forget you can just take out the flagstick if you don’t trust your opponent to do the job. Wendy
says… 1- A player in my group attends the pin for me but doesn’t pull it and my ball hits the pin…
You get a two stroke penalty as long as you allowed him to attend the pin 2- He pulls the pin, the cup comes up and my ball hits the cup which is now above ground.
No penalty. If the cup was moving when your ball struck it, you replay the stroke. If it was not moving, play the ball as it lies. If you don’t know if it was moving or not, play the ball as it lies. 3- The cup comes all the way out and my put goes into the hole where the cup was…
The putt is holed.
I assume you are presenting three different scenarios:- 1- A player in my group attends the pin for me but doesn’t pull it and my ball hits the pin…
You incur a penalty of 2-strokes.. Rule 17-3 2- He pulls the pin, the cup comes up and my ball hits the cup which is now above ground.
The cup liner is an outside agency, your ball is deflected by an outside agency, no penalty..play the ball as it lies..Rule 19-1. However, if it is determined that the other player purposely deflected the ball with the hole liner then he is penalised under Rule 1-4….two strokes in accordance with Rule 1-2. 3- The cup comes all the way out and my put goes into the hole where the cup was…
Your ball is a rest in the hole, therefore you have holed out with your last stroke….no penalty. cheers david
I assume you are presenting three different scenarios:-
It sounds like it was three components of ONE scenario. So bottom line, it holes out, but it costs him two additional strokes? Ed
[david s-a] : 2- He pulls the pin, the cup comes up and my ball hits the cup which is now : above ground. : :The cup liner is an outside agency, your ball is deflected by an outside agency, :no penalty..play the ball as it lies..Rule 19-1. However, if it is determined :that the other player purposely deflected the ball with the hole liner then he :is penalised under Rule 1-4….two strokes in accordance with Rule 1-2. This rule needs to be changed. The putt should be re-struck. — Bryan S. Slick, bryan at slick-family dot net "To those who preserve it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
1- A player in my group attends the pin for me but doesn’t pull it and my ball hits the pin… 2- He pulls the pin, the cup comes up and my ball hits the cup which is now above ground. 3- The cup comes all the way out and my put goes into the hole where the cup was…
If the above is accurate then in competition wouldn’t the player incur a penalty for taking a practice stroke?
Why?…..it is not a practice stroke, and is not intended as a practice stroke. cheers david
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A player lies two when he marks his ball. He replaces his ball, but leaves his ball marker in place. While he was examining the line of the putt and before addressing it, the ball rolls into the hole. The player picks up the ball, places it again by his marker, removes the marker and strokes the ball into the hole. What is the players score? Two. The ball is considered holed. Points to consider are: 1. The ball is in play after it is placed on the spot (See Rule 20-4). 2. The ball was not moved by the action of the player in addressing it, nor by an outside agency (See Rule 18). Many players do not realise that despite marking the position of the ball on the putting green, it is is play *until it is lifted* and again *after it is placed*. The fact that the marker is still there is immaterial. See also Rule 20-3d Ball Fails to Come to Rest on Spot, which says "If a ball when placed comes to rest on the spot on which it is placed, and it subsequently moves, there is no penalty and the ball shall be played as it lies, unless the provisions of any other Rule apply". Interestingly, if the ball had *not* rolled into the hole, the player would have incurred a penalty if he replaced it back where it was. If the ball is not moved by the player in addressing it, or by an outside agency, it must be played from its new position. But in this case the ball is considered holed out, so no penalty is applied. If the above is accurate then in competition wouldn’t the player incur a penalty for taking a practice stroke?
Practice putting on the green of the hole just completed is allowed unless the Committee has invoked the local rule prohibiting it. (see rule #7) With that local rule in place I *still* doubt that anyone would be penalized for this stroke since the player’s intention was to proceed under the rules. (Correction on this point greatly appreciated) –dph Get your FREE web-based e-mail and newsgroup access at: http://MailAndNews.com Create a new mailbox, or access your existing IMAP4 or POP3 mailbox from anywhere with just a web browser.
I took a quiz and one question I don’t agree with. Please set me straight or tell me I’m not crazy. The question is. A player lies two when he marks his ball. He replaces his ball, but leaves his ball marker in place. While he was examining the line of the putt and before addressing it, the ball rolls into the hole. The player picks up the ball, places it again by his marker, removes the marker and strokes the ball into the hole. What is the players score? Mark
If it’s not 3, I’d need an explanation.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I took a quiz and one question I don’t agree with. Please set me straight or tell me I’m not crazy. The question is. A player lies two when he marks his ball. He replaces his ball, but leaves his ball marker in place. While he was examining the line of the putt and before addressing it, the ball rolls into the hole. The player picks up the ball, places it again by his marker, removes the marker and strokes the ball into the hole. What is the players score? Mark
A player lies two when he marks his ball. He replaces his ball, but leaves his ball marker in place. While he was examining the line of the putt and before addressing it, the ball rolls into the hole. The player picks up the ball, places it again by his marker, removes the marker and strokes the ball into the hole. What is the players score?
Provided the ball was clearly at rest when the player first replaced the ball, and then rolled into the hole, he is considered to have holed out with his last stroke…his score is two (2). The issue with markers etc. is a red herring and has nothing to do with it (unless he failed to mark the spot when he first lifted the ball…which is another matter). cheers david
I took a quiz and one question I don’t agree with. Please set me straight or tell me I’m not crazy. The question is. A player lies two when he marks his ball. He replaces his ball, but leaves his ball marker in place. While he was examining the line of the putt and before addressing it, the ball rolls into the hole. The player picks up the ball, places it again by his marker, removes the marker and strokes the ball into the hole. What is the players score? The score is 2. As the player had not addressed the ball or done anything to cause the ball to move, the ball moved on its own(wind or gravity). When it fell in the hole, the hole was over with a score of 2. Had the ball NOT gone in the hole, it should have been played from where it came to rest and should NOT be replaced! See Decision 20-4/1. Wendy Mark
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A player lies two when he marks his ball. He replaces his ball, but leaves his ball marker in place. While he was examining the line of the putt and before addressing it, the ball rolls into the hole. The player picks up the ball, places it again by his marker, removes the marker and strokes the ball into the hole. What is the players score? Two. The ball is considered holed. Points to consider are: 1. The ball is in play after it is placed on the spot (See Rule 20-4). 2. The ball was not moved by the action of the player in addressing it, nor by an outside agency (See Rule 18). Many players do not realise that despite marking the position of the ball on the putting green, it is is play *until it is lifted* and again *after it is placed*. The fact that the marker is still there is immaterial. See also Rule 20-3d Ball Fails to Come to Rest on Spot, which says "If a ball when placed comes to rest on the spot on which it is placed, and it subsequently moves, there is no penalty and the ball shall be played as it lies, unless the provisions of any other Rule apply". Interestingly, if the ball had *not* rolled into the hole, the player would have incurred a penalty if he replaced it back where it was. If the ball is not moved by the player in addressing it, or by an outside agency, it must be played from its new position. But in this case the ball is considered holed out, so no penalty is applied.
If the above is accurate then in competition wouldn’t the player incur a penalty for taking a practice stroke? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/wilsonc.htm Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com
Okay, that makes more sense. Thanks Bryan — Bryan Berguson RSG Roll Call http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/bergusonb.htm
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is a difference with a ball that is overhanging the hole. If this was the case, Rule 16-2 prevails and he would have to add one stroke to his score although he has deemed to hole out. In the case in this thread, the ball is not overhanging a hole and therefore the player has holed out with his last stroke since the ball has been put back in play as explained earlier by Colin. I’m confused. I believe it was Brian Gay that took too much time waiting for a ball to drop that had come to rest next to the hole. If he would have marked the ball, then reset the ball and it drops into the cup, would he have made the putt? Bryan
I would say he made a three. Once marked and replaced, it doesn’t really matter if the ball moves. Until the player addresses the ball, it is not in play. Often when replacing a ball on a bumpy green, it’ll roll slightly to one side and it has to be replaced. There is no penalty for that. The fact that the ball in your example fell into the hole is of no significance. — Joe Cartpath – www.joecartpath.com Basic Golf Clubmaking & Memphis Area Golf Course Guide
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I took a quiz and one question I don’t agree with. Please set me straight or tell me I’m not crazy. The question is. A player lies two when he marks his ball. He replaces his ball, but leaves his ball marker in place. While he was examining the line of the putt and before addressing it, the ball rolls into the hole. The player picks up the ball, places it again by his marker, removes the marker and strokes the ball into the hole. What is the players score? Mark
This was my concern. What difference does it make if a ball comes to rest 1 inch or 1 foot from the hole. Mark The correct answer is 2 although I would feel guilty about writing that on my score card.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is a difference with a ball that is overhanging the hole. If this was the case, Rule 16-2 prevails and he would have to add one stroke to his score although he has deemed to hole out. In the case in this thread, the ball is not overhanging a hole and therefore the player has holed out with his last stroke since the ball has been put back in play as explained earlier by Colin. I’m confused. I believe it was Brian Gay that took too much time waiting for a ball to drop that had come to rest next to the hole. If he would have marked the ball, then reset the ball and it drops into the cup, would he have made the putt? Bryan
There is a difference with a ball that is overhanging the hole. If this was the case, Rule 16-2 prevails and he would have to add one stroke to his score although he has deemed to hole out. In the case in this thread, the ball is not overhanging a hole and therefore the player has holed out with his last stroke since the ball has been put back in play as explained earlier by Colin. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m confused. I believe it was Brian Gay that took too much time waiting for a ball to drop that had come to rest next to the hole. If he would have marked the ball, then reset the ball and it drops into the cup, would he have made the putt? Bryan
I’m confused. I believe it was Brian Gay that took too much time waiting for a ball to drop that had come to rest next to the hole. If he would have marked the ball, then reset the ball and it drops into the cup, would he have made the putt? Bryan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A player lies two when he marks his ball. He replaces his ball, but leaves his ball marker in place. While he was examining the line of the putt and before addressing it, the ball rolls into the hole. The player picks up the ball, places it again by his marker, removes the marker and strokes the ball into the hole. What is the players score? Two. The ball is considered holed. Points to consider are: 1. The ball is in play after it is placed on the spot (See Rule 20-4). 2. The ball was not moved by the action of the player in addressing it, nor by an outside agency (See Rule 18). Many players do not realise that despite marking the position of the ball on the putting green, it is is play *until it is lifted* and again *after it is placed*. The fact that the marker is still there is immaterial. See also Rule 20-3d Ball Fails to Come to Rest on Spot, which says "If a ball when placed comes to rest on the spot on which it is placed, and it subsequently moves, there is no penalty and the ball shall be played as it lies, unless the provisions of any other Rule apply". Interestingly, if the ball had *not* rolled into the hole, the player would have incurred a penalty if he replaced it back where it was. If the ball is not moved by the player in addressing it, or by an outside agency, it must be played from its new position. But in this case the ball is considered holed out, so no penalty is applied. Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/wilsonc.htm Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com
A player lies two when he marks his ball. He replaces his ball, but leaves his ball marker in place. While he was examining the line of the putt and before addressing it, the ball rolls into the hole. The player picks up the ball, places it again by his marker, removes the marker and strokes the ball into the hole. What is the players score?
Two. The ball is considered holed. Points to consider are: 1. The ball is in play after it is placed on the spot (See Rule 20-4). 2. The ball was not moved by the action of the player in addressing it, nor by an outside agency (See Rule 18). Many players do not realise that despite marking the position of the ball on the putting green, it is is play *until it is lifted* and again *after it is placed*. The fact that the marker is still there is immaterial. See also Rule 20-3d Ball Fails to Come to Rest on Spot, which says "If a ball when placed comes to rest on the spot on which it is placed, and it subsequently moves, there is no penalty and the ball shall be played as it lies, unless the provisions of any other Rule apply". Interestingly, if the ball had *not* rolled into the hole, the player would have incurred a penalty if he replaced it back where it was. If the ball is not moved by the player in addressing it, or by an outside agency, it must be played from its new position. But in this case the ball is considered holed out, so no penalty is applied. Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/wilsonc.htm Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is the exact rule for tending the flag? All other answers here are of course correct, I do not understand what is so difficult about taking the flag rule for granted – I am continually annoyed by players assuming that because I am off the green I cannot have the flag attended. also some trivia:- I read somewhere that statistics show that there is a 70% advantage in leaving the flag in the hole when chipping/putting from off the green in that the pin will "assist" the ball into the hole rather than have it shoot off the lip.
Yes I would agree ,David,statistically,leaving the pin in the hole wnen playing from off the green will generally help more often than not. Does anybody have any statistics on this subject? JAMES MITCHELL
That advice is echoed by Dave Pelz, who found (if I recall correctly) *all* shots from off the green went into the cup more often with the pin in, even uphill. Putting, I’m not sure, it probably doesn’t make a whole lot of difference. (Recalling the good ol’ days of the unattended flagstick on the green.) From off the green, the one major advantage of having the stick in is that if a strong shot hits the pin, it will probably finish closer to the hole than if the pin weren’t there. I see a pin get hit maybe once a (foursome) round from off the green. -joseph Having said that, I think it’s often wise to leave the flagstick in. How often, after all, are perfect shots hit? If the shot is downhill, or out of a bunker, I’ll always leave the flagstick in."
– Author, Effective Perl Programming . . . . . http://www.effectiveperl.com Perl Training . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . http://www.perltraining.com
Direct from _Every Shot I Take_ by Davis Love III: "In match play, one thing you can do that will always get your opponent thinking is to take out the flagstick when you’re chipping. Not that that’s a reason to do it, but your opponent surely knows, as my father always said, "If you think you can hole a chip shot out, take out the flagstick, because the flagstick never helped a perfect shot." Having said that, I think it’s often wise to leave the flagstick in. How often, after all, are perfect shots hit? If the shot is downhill, or out of a bunker, I’ll always leave the flagstick in." Chris — _______ . . ‘ \ . . | O// . . | _ . . | | | . . . . | / | . . . . | / .| . …o | ** Golf is a game whose aim is to hit a very small ball ** ** into an even smaller hole, with weapons ** ** singularly ill designed for the purpose. ** ** –Winston Churchill ** spam bait below, no need to read
What is the exact rule for tending the flag?
All other answers here are of course correct, I do not understand what is so difficult about taking the flag rule for granted – I am continually annoyed by players assuming that because I am off the green I cannot have the flag attended. also some trivia:- I read somewhere that statistics show that there is a 70% advantage in leaving the flag in the hole when chipping/putting from off the green in that the pin will "assist" the ball into the hole rather than have it shoot off the lip.
: also some trivia:- : I read somewhere that statistics show that there is a 70% advantage in : leaving the flag in the hole when chipping/putting from off the green in : that the pin will "assist" the ball into the hole rather than have it shoot : off the lip. i’ve never heard that. conventional wisdom is that there is more room in the hole without the flagstick. the only time i think the flagstick helps, is when a chip or putt is going so fast that if the flagstick weren’t there, the ball would simply go right over the hole and speed on way past the hole. — charlie please post all responses. my email address on this post is incorrect in hopes of thwarting the efforts of the bulk-emailers to send me unsolicited and annoying email. if you must email me, my correct address is charlie at dolphins dot ssc dot nasa dot gov
That’s from a study done by Dave Pelz, the chipping and putting expert. It was published in Golf Digest or Golf Magazine within the last two or three years. I think the conclusion was you should always leave the pin in, unless the wind is blowing it toward you. Jim Means – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : also some trivia:- : I read somewhere that statistics show that there is a 70% advantage in : leaving the flag in the hole when chipping/putting from off the green in : that the pin will "assist" the ball into the hole rather than have it shoot : off the lip. i’ve never heard that. conventional wisdom is that there is more room in the hole without the flagstick. the only time i think the flagstick helps, is when a chip or putt is going so fast that if the flagstick weren’t there, the ball would simply go right over the hole and speed on way past the hole. — charlie please post all responses. my email address on this post is incorrect in hopes of thwarting the efforts of the bulk-emailers to send me unsolicited and annoying email. if you must email me, my correct address is charlie at dolphins dot ssc dot nasa dot gov
The ONLY relvent Rule here, is that IF your ball was on the green when you played the stroke, IF the ball strikes the flag stick, it is a penalty. There is nothing in the Rules per se that states that the flag stick must be removed. For example, if you make a stroke when the flagstick is attened, and make a poor stroke that has no chance of going in or striking the flagstick, the person tending the flagstick does NOT have to pull it at all!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -What is the exact rule for tending the flag? I know that if you are on the green, you can have the flag tended and then pulled as the putt approaches the hole, or just have it removed entirely. Also when you are off the green you can have it pulled or left in. But when you are off the green, can you have the flag tended and then pulled as the shot approaches the hole, OR must the flag either be in or out before the shot/putt is made?
I don;t believe that there is any rule concerning the tending of the flag when the ball is off of the green. You may have the flag tended, but I personally would prefer to have the flag left in the hole. The part of the rule book that deals with the flag is Section 17. Nik
I agree. I have never found a prohibition regarding having the flag tended when hitting from off the green. However, I never see it done. Perhaps because if you are off the green and have the flag tended there is greater likelhood of a mishit shot hitting the person tending the flag, which is a penalty I believe, not to mention embarassing.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -What is the exact rule for tending the flag? I know that if you are on the green, you can have the flag tended and then pulled as the putt approaches the hole, or just have it removed entirely. Also when you are off the green you can have it pulled or left in. But when you are off the green, can you have the flag tended and then pulled as the shot approaches the hole, OR must the flag either be in or out before the shot/putt is made?
What is the exact rule for tending the flag? I know that if you are on the green, you can have the flag tended and then pulled as the putt approaches the hole, or just have it removed entirely. Also when you are off the green you can have it pulled or left in. But when you are off the green, can you have the flag tended and then pulled as the shot approaches the hole, OR must the flag either be in or out before the shot/putt is made?
May have it tended, left or taken out at ANY time. BUT!!! if you putt from on the green and hit the pin – 2 STROKE PENALTY, so you’d usually have it removed or tended in that situation…. SteveR
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is the exact rule for tending the flag? I know that if you are on the green, you can have the flag tended and then pulled as the putt approaches the hole, or just have it removed entirely. Also when you are off the green you can have it pulled or left in. But when you are off the green, can you have the flag tended and then pulled as the shot approaches the hole, OR must the flag either be in or out before the shot/putt is made? May have it tended, left or taken out at ANY time. BUT!!! if you putt from on the green and hit the pin – 2 STROKE PENALTY, so you’d usually have it removed or tended in that situation…. SteveR
Any other time you have the flagstick attended and hit it, it is also a two stroke penalty. You cannot let the ball hit the flagstick when it has been attended. Jim Means
What is the exact rule for tending the flag? I know that if you are on the green, you can have the flag tended and then pulled as the putt approaches the hole, or just have it removed entirely. Also when you are off the green you can have it pulled or left in. But when you are off the green, can you have the flag tended and then pulled as the shot approaches the hole, OR must the flag either be in or out before the shot/putt is made?
I don’t believe so. You can go as far back as you want but you must keep the point of the unplayable lie between you and the hole,and you cannot re-tee the ball. If you lost the ball then you could go back to the tee and re-tee ,incurring the stroke penalty. If I’m wrong let me know. Tony
"If you hit a ball into an unplayable lie off the tee, do you have the option of re-teeing and incurring the same one stroke penalty as if you dropped two club lenghts from the unplayable?" Yes. Rule 28a, follow the reference back to rule 20-5. In either case, you’re hitting three. There’s also a third option available, drop back along the line of your unplayable lie and the hole as far as you wish, also under penalty of one stroke. Hope this helps. Bob
To: cc: (bcc: Robert Barthle/National/NISH) "If you hit a ball into an unplayable lie off the tee, do you have the option of re-teeing and incurring the same one stroke penalty as if you dropped two club lenghts from the unplayable?" Yes. Rule 28a, follow the reference back to rule 20-5. In either case, you’re hitting three. There’s also a third option available, drop back along the line of your unplayable lie and the hole as far as you wish, also under penalty of one stroke. Hope this helps. Bob
: I don’t believe so. You can go as far back as you want but you must keep the : point of the unplayable lie between you and the hole,and you cannot re-tee : the ball. If you lost the ball then you could go back to the tee and re-tee : ,incurring the stroke penalty. If I’m : wrong let me know. You’re wrong. —
says… I don’t believe so. You can go as far back as you want but you must keep the point of the unplayable lie between you and the hole,and you cannot re-tee the ball. If you lost the ball then you could go back to the tee and re-tee ,incurring the stroke penalty. If I’m wrong let me know. Tony
You are wrong. The ball MAY be re-teed. In any situation that requires a ball to be replayed from the teeing area, the ball may be teed up. SteveR
For a free 1996 full color golf catalog filled with excellent prices on proline and custom built irons, woods, putters, and all the accessories imaginable, click reply and send us your mailing address for home or work. While browsing through the internet, stop and visit our site at http://www.wgagolf.com/ Regards Billy Bridges – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – says… I don’t believe so. You can go as far back as you want but you must keep the point of the unplayable lie between you and the hole,and you cannot re-tee the ball. If you lost the ball then you could go back to the tee and re-tee ,incurring the stroke penalty. If I’m wrong let me know. Tony You are wrong. The ball MAY be re-teed. In any situation that requires a ball to be replayed from the teeing area, the ball may be teed up. SteveR
Ok, what happens here… You accidently hit into the group ahead of you. They get PO’d and decide to hit your ball out of bounds… What do you do? Re-hit or attempt to drop the ball where it was…and is there a penality involved?
Two demerit points for bad aim and not knocking them cold. Replace where it was, and Make sure you follow them in, and they take the 2 stroke penalty for playing the wrong ball. — http://www.geocities.com/MadisonAvenue/1488 Law Practice http://www.freeyellow.com/members/meskenazi/ http://www.crafti.com.au/~bharvey/ockerani.gif
: Ok, what happens here… : You accidently hit into the group ahead of you. They get PO’d and decide to : hit your ball out of bounds… : What do you do? Re-hit or attempt to drop the ball where it was…and is : there a penality involved? Under the Rules, you would drop the ball at a spot nearest as possible to where it was before it was moved by the "outside agency". Good Putting! Mark
Two demerit points for bad aim and not knocking them cold. Replace where it was, and Make sure you follow them in, and they take the 2 stroke penalty for playing the wrong ball.
That is not a wrong ball. Whacking someother obviously out-of-play ball could be construed as ‘practice on the course’, if the club and swing used are the same as the fellow’s next real stroke. -Jay
While playing at our course today a group coming down the oposite fairway had a ball land on ours. I was playing a top flight hot xl. after a fair tee shot I was moving up to my ball to find it missing and a new top flight Ti close to were mine had landed. I was sure the one of the other group had played my ball. Later at the turn I saw the group in the cllub house and indeed the guy had my ball and I gave him his TI ball back. What is the ruling on this for me.
BOTH of you are disqualified as both played wrong ball and error was not corrected before play of the next hole or, in the case that you were playing the 18th hole (which does not appear to have been the case here), you left the green. SteveR
While playing at our course today a group coming down the oposite fairway had a ball land on ours. I was playing a top flight hot xl. after a fair tee shot I was moving up to my ball to find it missing and a new top flight Ti close to were mine had landed. I was sure the one of the other group had played my ball. Later at the turn I saw the group in the cllub house and indeed the guy had my ball and I gave him his TI ball back. What is the ruling on this for me.
You lost your ball … Need to hit your 3rd shot from the tee….bad break…stupid rule. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While playing at our course today a group coming down the oposite fairway had a ball land on ours. I was playing a top flight hot xl. after a fair tee shot I was moving up to my ball to find it missing and a new top flight Ti close to were mine had landed. I was sure the one of the other group had played my ball. Later at the turn I saw the group in the cllub house and indeed the guy had my ball and I gave him his TI ball back. What is the ruling on this for me.
While playing at our course today a group coming down the oposite fairway had a ball land on ours. I was playing a top flight hot xl. after a fair tee shot I was moving up to my ball to find it missing and a new top flight Ti close to were mine had landed. I was sure the one of the other group had played my ball. Later at the turn I saw the group in the cllub house and indeed the guy had my ball and I gave him his TI ball back. What is the ruling on this for me.
There’s probably been a USGA ruling on this. You might check their website at http://www.usga.org and navigate to the rulings section. If you’re *certain* at the time you played your shot that your ball had been "stolen" (not lost), my first inclination would be to assume it had been moved by an outside agency. Drop as near as possible to the point you believe your ball to have been and play from there. No penalty. This is so annoying when someone does this, especially when you put an identifying mark on your ball. In your case, it’s even more stupid, considering that you and this other guy were playing balls of a completely different brand. I applaud your cool demeanor. If it had been me, the penalty might have been greater–like, say, 20 to life. Randy
While playing at our course today a group coming down the oposite fairway had a ball land on ours. I was playing a top flight hot xl. after a fair tee shot I was moving up to my ball to find it missing and a new top flight Ti close to were mine had landed. I was sure the one of the other group had played my ball. Later at the turn I saw the group in the cllub house and indeed the guy had my ball and I gave him his TI ball back. What is the ruling on this for me.
It would seem to me that Rule 18-1 covers the situation: "If a ball at rest is moved by an outside agency, the player shall incur no penalty and the ball shall be replaced before the player plays another stroke." Note 1 to Rule 18: "If a ball to be replaced … is not immediately recoverable, another ball may be substituted." Decision 18-1/1: "To treat a ball … as moved … rather than lost, there must be reasonable evidence to that effect." To cut a long story short, I think you should have dropped another ball as close as possible to where you thought yours had been, with no penalty. You didn’t say whether you holed out with the other guy’s ball or not. If you did, that would have been a "wrong ball" as defined and Rule 15 applies. In match play you would lose the hole and in stroke play you would incur a penalty of two strokes but must correct your mistake ASAP, otherwise you would be disqualified. (Note the wrong ball was not in a hazard when the situation would be different). Eddie Haynes-Smart, Cape Town, South Africa
On a course I play frequently, the 150 yd markers are boulders about 3 feet long, 2 feet wide, and 1 to 2 feet tall. The question: should these rocks be considered immovable obstructions, thereby providing relief? They were put there for the purpose of yardage markers, and are not "natural" from that standpoint. I’ve never tried to move one, but think I would need a Tiger gallery to do it anyway! DG
On a course I play frequently, the 150 yd markers are boulders about 3 feet long, 2 feet wide, and 1 to 2 feet tall. The question: should these rocks be considered immovable obstructions, thereby providing relief? They were put there for the purpose of yardage markers, and are not "natural" from that standpoint. I’ve never tried to move one, but think I would need a Tiger gallery to do it anyway!
They cannot automatically be considered obstructions of any sort as they are natural objects……and provided they are not solidly embedded they are ‘loose impediments’…and may be moved by whatever means is available. However, a Committee can, by local rule, deem those particular objects to be ‘immovable obstructions’ and fixed, thereby preventing them from being moved….and would provide relief from interference without penalty through Rule 24-2. Note, however, that under this Rule, if the players ball is in a water hazard or a lateral water hazard there is NO relief from interference without penalty! david
A "lateral water hazard” is a water hazard or that part of a water hazard so situated that it is not possible or is deemed by the Committee to be impracticable to drop a ball behind the water hazard in accordance with Rule 26-1b. Nope… He’s right. It’s for both. Just because the Committee generally deems it impracticable doesn’t exclude the option of dropping in accordance with 26-1b. If you wish to.. you can do, and on some courses can be a better option. Nope. You might use his number 5, but a lateral water hazard is a hazard that you do not have to cross in order to arrive at the green. It is lateral. There is no "behind" to a lateral water hazard. There might be a case where there’s a spit of water that you could drop behind, but, in reality, this is just a two club lateral drop.
It’s not 26-1b that’s relevant to this argument, it’s 26-1c, which says: "As additional options available only if the ball last crossed the margin of a lateral water hazard, drop a ball outside the water hazard within two club-lengths of and not nearer the hole than (i) the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard or (ii) a point on the opposite margin of the water hazard equidistant from the hole." Note point (ii). Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/wilsonc.htm Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com
It’s not 26-1b that’s relevant to this argument, it’s 26-1c, which says: "As additional options available only if the ball last crossed the margin of a lateral water hazard, drop a ball outside the water hazard within two club-lengths of and not nearer the hole than (i) the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard or (ii) a point on the opposite margin of the water hazard equidistant from the hole." Note point (ii).
You’re correct Colin. My point, really, was that the #3 option that he listed was the same as #5. "Someone likes every shot" bk RSG FAQ:http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html
You’re correct Colin. My point, really, was that the #3 option that he listed was the same as #5.
No, it’s not the same. Look at the diagram in Decision 26-1/15. Your "#3 option" is the dotted line that goes through Point D (using 26-1b). Your "#5 option" is the shaded ground within 2 clublengths of Point E (using 26-1c(ii)). These absolutely are not the same thing.
You’re correct Colin. My point, really, was that the #3 option that he listed was the same as #5. No, it’s not the same. Look at the diagram in Decision 26-1/15. Your "#3 option" is the dotted line that goes through Point D (using 26-1b). Your "#5 option" is the shaded ground within 2 clublengths of Point E (using 26-1c(ii)). These absolutely are not the same thing.
You’re right. I couldn’t visualize this possibility on any hole that I’d played, but there are so many vagaries that it would’ve been prudent for me to just keep my mouth shut. The lateral hazard rule is probably the most mis-played of all. We have a par three with lateral hazard (100 acre lake) on the left, and a small spit that goes in front of the green. The stake colors change, and are very obvious, but its amazing how many players choose to ignore the difference between lateral, and water hazard. "Someone likes every shot" bk RSG FAQ:http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html
I was going to respond this afternoon when I read your first response, but everyone else (including you) already said it. Chris — remove "bogey" from reply to address rsg Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/mcnaughtc.htm RSG FAQ: http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html www.golfcentennial.com www.idahogolfassn.com Rules of Golf Articles: http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/golf/
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re correct Colin. My point, really, was that the #3 option that he listed was the same as #5. No, it’s not the same. Look at the diagram in Decision 26-1/15. Your "#3 option" is the dotted line that goes through Point D (using 26-1b). Your "#5 option" is the shaded ground within 2 clublengths of Point E (using 26-1c(ii)). These absolutely are not the same thing. You’re right. I couldn’t visualize this possibility on any hole that I’d played, but there are so many vagaries that it would’ve been prudent for me to just keep my mouth shut. The lateral hazard rule is probably the most mis-played of all. We have a par three with lateral hazard (100 acre lake) on the left, and a small spit that goes in front of the green. The stake colors change, and are very obvious, but its amazing how many players choose to ignore the difference between lateral, and water hazard. "Someone likes every shot" bk RSG FAQ:http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html
I was going to respond this afternoon when I read your first response, but everyone else (including you) already said it. Chris
To what are you referring? "Someone likes every shot" bk RSG FAQ:http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html
In a best ball match played this morning there was disagreement on how to play after a tee ball went into a lateral water hazard immediately in front of the tee. I thought a ball had to be dropped within 2 club lengths of the point of entry into the lateral water hazard and then hitting 3. Our opponents claimed the player had the option of re-teeing the ball hitting 3 from the tee. I can’t find this in the rule book. I’d appreciate comments from this group and if this re-teeing option is in the rule book I’d like to know where. Thanks! Dave
Our opponents claimed the player had the option of re-teeing the ball hitting 3 from the tee. I can’t find this in the rule book. I’d appreciate comments from this group and if this re-teeing option is in the rule book I’d like to know where. Thanks!
This correct….Rule 26-1…….with a ‘lateral’ water hazard ( usually red markings) you have five (5) options:- 1) Play from within the lateral water hazard (if possible) – no penalty or, under penalty of one (1) stroke:- 2) Replay from the tee (or from where ever the original stroke was played from). 3) Drop a ball anywhere on a line drawn from the hole thru’ the point of entry at the margin of the hazard..the ball must be played from BEHIND the hazard! 4) Drop a ball within two (2) club-lengths of the point of entry at the margin of the hazard, no nearer the hole (as you mention). 5) Drop a ball within two (2) club-lengths of a similar position on the other side of the hazard, which is equidistant from the hole. If the hazard was just a normal ‘water hazard’ (usually yellow markings) you only have the first three (3) options as shown above. cheers david
In a best ball match played this morning there was disagreement on how to play after a tee ball went into a lateral water hazard immediately in front of the tee. I thought a ball had to be dropped within 2 club lengths of the point of entry into the lateral water hazard and then hitting 3. Our opponents claimed the player had the option of re-teeing the ball hitting 3 from the tee.
David’s explanation is correct, Dave. The provision allowing you to drop within two club lengths of the margin of a lateral water hazard is in addition to the options available for "regular" water hazards. You can pick the one which best fits your situation. — Don Porter Web Page: http://www.datacruz.com/~dporter
You can always go back to the orginal spot and hit again — in this case it would be the tee and you can use a "tee" to hit from (orginal spot) We have a place on our course that is similar — water about 20 yards in front of the tee but if you go to the edge of the water you are in a major downhill lie in cruddy ground. Most of us will hit form the tee again or a least go to the front of the tee box and drop there where the land is better. Ken Plants (forgiveness is easier to get than permission)
Thank you all for helping me with this rules question. I thought I knew the rules better than I obviously do. Now I’m glad I didn’t press the point with our opponents on the course. Luckily, it didn’t affect the best ball score on the hole in question. Dave
For a ball hit into a lateral water hazard there are five options. 1. Play the ball as it lies. Sometimes this may be impossible, eg. under six feet of water. 2. Play another ball from where the original ball was played. If the ball was played from the teeing ground, you may tee another ball. The ball may be teed anywhere within the teeing ground, not necessarily the exact same spot. 3. Keeping the point where the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard between you and the hole, you may drop anywhere along that line. 4. Two club lengths from where the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard, no nearer the hole. 5. Two club lengths from the opposite margin of the hazard, no nearer the hole. See Rule 26. Chris — remove "bogey" from reply to address rsg Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/mcnaughtc.htm RSG FAQ: http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html www.golfcentennial.com www.idahogolfassn.com Rules of Golf Articles: http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/golf/
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In a best ball match played this morning there was disagreement on how to play after a tee ball went into a lateral water hazard immediately in front of the tee. I thought a ball had to be dropped within 2 club lengths of the point of entry into the lateral water hazard and then hitting 3. Our opponents claimed the player had the option of re-teeing the ball hitting 3 from the tee. I can’t find this in the rule book. I’d appreciate comments from this group and if this re-teeing option is in the rule book I’d like to know where. Thanks! Dave
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For a ball hit into a lateral water hazard there are five options. 1. Play the ball as it lies. Sometimes this may be impossible, eg. under six feet of water. 2. Play another ball from where the original ball was played. If the ball was played from the teeing ground, you may tee another ball. The ball may be teed anywhere within the teeing ground, not necessarily the exact same spot. 3. Keeping the point where the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard between you and the hole, you may drop anywhere along that line. 4. Two club lengths from where the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard, no nearer the hole. 5. Two club lengths from the opposite margin of the hazard, no nearer the hole. See Rule 26.
Number 3 is incorrect. That rule is for a water hazard, not a lateral water hazard. A "lateral water hazard
Just curious: Allen Doyle was wearing a strap, just below the elbow of his right arm. I have seen other people wearing this kind of thing. Why?
Just curious: Allen Doyle was wearing a strap, just below the elbow of his right arm. I have seen other people wearing this kind of thing.
Probably to relieve elbow tendonitis pain. As I understand it, the strap takes the pressure off the end of the tendon. — http://rec-sport-golf.com/?rc=hayesd
Just curious: Allen Doyle was wearing a strap, just below the elbow of his right arm. I have seen other people wearing this kind of thing. Why?
He’s right handed, and it’s on his right elbow, so it’s probably for "Golfer’s Elbow", i.e. medial epicondylitis (inside of the elbow.) Probably more common, actually, is "Tennis Elbow", i.e. lateral epicondylitis (outside of the elbow). Most golfers will get lateral epicondylitis on their left elbow.
Thanks, seems to make sense. Bri
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just curious: Allen Doyle was wearing a strap, just below the elbow of his right arm. I have seen other people wearing this kind of thing. Why?
Just curious: Allen Doyle was wearing a strap, just below the elbow of his right arm. I have seen other people wearing this kind of thing. Probably to relieve elbow tendonitis pain. As I understand it, the strap takes the pressure off the end of the tendon.
That is absolutely……correct. A number of guys in my Monday Night bowling league wear one of those including one of my own team members. He has sworn by it for the last 3 years and I know without it, he wouldn’t have a chance of controlling that big ‘ol ball. Now I just hope the golfing gods don’t strike me down for mentioning the bow**** word in here. ;) JesterX
says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just curious: Allen Doyle was wearing a strap, just below the elbow of his right arm. I have seen other people wearing this kind of thing. Why? He’s right handed, and it’s on his right elbow, so it’s probably for "Golfer’s Elbow", i.e. medial epicondylitis (inside of the elbow.) Probably more common, actually, is "Tennis Elbow", i.e. lateral epicondylitis (outside of the elbow). Most golfers will get lateral epicondylitis on their left elbow.
I’ve had the problem in both elbows, and it’s no fun. I carry one of those straps in my golf bag. Of one of them starts to hurt, the strap goes on. Kenny — Kenny Stultz – Troll and SPAM intolerant RSG Rollcall: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=stultzk "Golf is the only sport where a precise knowledge of the Rules can earn one a reputation for poor sportsmanship"
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just curious: Allen Doyle was wearing a strap, just below the elbow of his right arm. I have seen other people wearing this kind of thing. Why? He’s right handed, and it’s on his right elbow, so it’s probably for "Golfer’s Elbow", i.e. medial epicondylitis (inside of the elbow.) Probably more common, actually, is "Tennis Elbow", i.e. lateral epicondylitis (outside of the elbow). Most golfers will get lateral epicondylitis on their left elbow.
So that’s what that damn pain is in my right elbow. I guess you can get one of these straps at the local druggist? — Regards, Irish Golf Lad "Truth was in our hearts and strength in our arms, and what we said, that we fulfilled." [Keelta of the Fianna]
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just curious: Allen Doyle was wearing a strap, just below the elbow of his right arm. I have seen other people wearing this kind of thing. Why? He’s right handed, and it’s on his right elbow, so it’s probably for "Golfer’s Elbow", i.e. medial epicondylitis (inside of the elbow.) Probably more common, actually, is "Tennis Elbow", i.e. lateral epicondylitis (outside of the elbow). Most golfers will get lateral epicondylitis on their left elbow. So that’s what that damn pain is in my right elbow. I guess you can get one of these straps at the local druggist?
That’s where I got mine. Simple gadget, with velcro and a slip-through bar to aid in drawing it tight. Worked very nicely for me when I was so afflicted. And I didn’t need to use it very long, either, for which I’m grateful. So: something worked and did the trick. I’m guessing it was giving that tendon anchor on the elbow a rest by using the strap. Peter
Think I need a psychiatrist to fix this one….. Watching the video, my practice swing (doing a continuous swing drill or a pre-shot swing) is perfect. My real swing has a disgusting over the top move which is killing my game. I have done every drill in the book, but I cannot make my real swing look like the practice version. Troy
What are you looking at when you make your practice swing? Try focussing on a blade of grass or similar…..and hit it! cheers david
Think I need a psychiatrist to fix this one….. Watching the video, my practice swing (doing a continuous swing drill or a pre-shot swing) is perfect. My real swing has a disgusting over the top move which is killing my game. I have done every drill in the book, but I cannot make my real swing look like the practice version. Troy
I used to do that. I didn’t trust my swing and I tried harder to swing when I had a ball in front of me. So I would jerk the club at the top and come over the top. What helped me was thinking about making a lay up shot and the ball would really fly. Good luck — Jim Sabatke Hire Me!! – See my resume at http://my.execpc.com/~jsabatke Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
I have a similar problem. I take a few swings, note that I am swinging out to in, get my practice swings correct, then swing wrong when I hit the ball. I do aim at blades of grass. Today I practiced my swing and hit the club that I had on the ground in front of me (left a groove on my 3I while at it), and when I hit a few balls later, I was still pushing the ball. A golf pro swung with my club and pushed the ball a couple of times too (Of course he hit a short shot right between my legs, and I hit one short shot that hit my golf bag dead center – while aiming at it). Swinging at a particular blade of grass is a good idea. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What are you looking at when you make your practice swing? Try focussing on a blade of grass or similar…..and hit it! cheers david
You’re not a head case, very common problem (at least one of my most common). Mostly a case of not trusting the club to actually propel the ball a fair distance, IMHO. "Swing" the club … nice, easy, pendulum swings. The story goes … Bobby Jones and his Dad were out playing a round. After pulling, pushing, slicing several shots, his Dad takes a beautiful looking practice swing (at nothing) and asks in exasperation "Tell me, what’s wrong with that swing !!??". Bobby replies "Nothing. You should try using it some time." Harvey Penick says "Never take another practice swing without aiming at something." A blade of grass, a tee, a spot on the carpet,whatever. Rob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Think I need a psychiatrist to fix this one….. Watching the video, my practice swing (doing a continuous swing drill or a pre-shot swing) is perfect. My real swing has a disgusting over the top move which is killing my game. I have done every drill in the book, but I cannot make my real swing look like the practice version. Troy
Think I need a psychiatrist to fix this one…..
No shrink needed. My experience, as limited as it is, has been that when I approach a real ball on a real course (as opposed to the driving range or practice swings), I tend to try to make the ball do what I want it to do, whereas the best approach for me has turned out to be "just let the club do what the club is supposed to do". Don’t try to hit a drive 250 yards, just swing the club and let it do it’s work. Don’t try to get an extra 15 yards out of a 5-iron, just swing the club and let it do it’s work. Don’t try to lift a ball over trees (where I play a lot), just swing the club and let it do it’s work. You will get the extra distance, extra lift, etc. after you learn to strike the ball well and become more confident. Swinging hard (or easy) before learning consistent ball striking seems to lead to errors. Others here can tell us if I’m right/wrong.
I do look at the ball. Even at the inside of the ball to try to get the inside-out swing thing happening.. Maybe I need to be more specific, as you suggest. Won’t hurt to try it. Thanks Troy
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – me!! What are you looking at when you make your practice swing? Try focussing on a blade of grass or similar…..and hit it! cheers david
Another valid point. I do find it hard to hit it "easy" when I have the ball in front of me. Trying to get rid of this is not easy, but the thought of a lay-up shot is very valid. I cannot remember the number of times I have tried to lay up and then crunched it through the green. Thanks!!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Think I need a psychiatrist to fix this one….. Watching the video, my practice swing (doing a continuous swing drill or a pre-shot swing) is perfect. My real swing has a disgusting over the top move which is killing my game. I have done every drill in the book, but I cannot make my real swing look like the practice version. me!! Troy I used to do that. I didn’t trust my swing and I tried harder to swing when I had a ball in front of me. So I would jerk the club at the top and come over the top. What helped me was thinking about making a lay up shot and the ball would really fly. Good luck — Jim Sabatke Hire Me!! – See my resume at http://my.execpc.com/~jsabatke Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
All valid points. My practice swing does look fantastic and occasionally, when I am not actually THINKING about the shot, I put a really good swing on it. When I have used the video, lately, I have seen a couple of swings on the ball that look really good. As I tend to work on particular drills, I can usually tell what I have done in my swing that is not my natural tendency. When I hit a good one, I can’t pick what I have done that is different i.e. I have just swung it naturally. I once had a really good golf swing, until I started to think about how I swung the club. My short game was terrible due to lack of practice, but I had a naturally good swing on the full shots. Now my short game is good (due to practice) and my long game is terrible, due to over analysis in the actual swing. This game is not much fun anymore….. My fishing rods have been getting dusty and might need to Thanks to all who have responsed so far Troy
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Think I need a psychiatrist to fix this one….. No shrink needed. My experience, as limited as it is, has been that when I approach a real ball on a real course (as opposed to the driving range or practice swings), I tend to try to make the ball do what I want it to do, whereas the best approach for me has turned out to be "just let the club do what the club is supposed to do". Don’t try to hit a drive 250 yards, just swing the club and let it do it’s work. Don’t try to get an extra 15 yards out of a 5-iron, just swing the club and let it do it’s work. Don’t try to lift a ball over trees (where I play a lot), just swing the club and let it do it’s work. You will get the extra distance, extra lift, etc. after you learn to strike the ball well and become more confident. Swinging hard (or easy) before learning consistent ball striking seems to lead to errors. Others here can tell us if I’m right/wrong.
Well, what does work for everyone (most of us) who can make a beautiful practice swing and then screw up the real shot is this: Simply warm up and then swing with a TINY percentage of your full effort. Annika Sorenstam and Byron Nelson and probably most of the successful pros all say they NEVER swing with more than 70% of their full strength. they learned to make a very conscious effort to hold back. More effort = poorer results. I have my best rounds after going to the range with that idea. I warm up with half shots and then I try to swing a middle iron with ZERO grip pressure and NO arm tension. I don’t care how far or how straight the first dozen balls go. Amazingly, after that, with the same zero grip pressure and no arm tension, no "muscle" the balls go straight and far, the same distance as when I try to overpower it. AND, out on the course they do that when the "chips are down" driving and even 150 out, everyone about the same place after the drives, and a serious bet on the line. When I just relax and swing with no tension, I can hit the green. Most others tense up and hit behind the ball, top it, or hit it sideways after a poor turn, etc. etc. Folks, this is the "secret." There is no secret except that none of us can FORCE a golf club. We must relax. It is also fun to go around 18 with no tension, no sweat, and no back ache. Larry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I do look at the ball. Even at the inside of the ball to try to get the inside-out swing thing happening.. Maybe I need to be more specific, as you suggest. Won’t hurt to try it. Thanks Troy me!! What are you looking at when you make your practice swing? Try focussing on a blade of grass or similar…..and hit it! cheers david
Think I need a psychiatrist to fix this one…..
No, just you. But just in case: Forget the ball is there, and practice-swing through it. Forget the stroke counts, and just do it. Visualize the course as a range. Play more rounds just for fun, no scorekeeping. Also, you don’t know your practice swing is perfect, because there’s no ball there to score it. I thought mine was, but it turned out I had almost everything wrong but the tempo. *And* I couldn’t repeat it with the ball in the way. I’ve rebuilt (or, rather, *built*, as what I had before was measurably incompetent) my whole swing on the range, and I’m only now getting confident using it on the course. One thing that helps is *not* taking full practice swings. I’ll just do a quarter swing to range the ground with my clubhead so I can get the right distance from the ball at setup. This mirrors my routine at the range, where I just hit the balls with no intervening dry-fire. I don’t know if many pros do real practice swings, either. Most look like 3/4 swings that help them loosen up their shirts. –Blair "I bet Elin Nordgren could put out a series of videos of swing tips."
Think I need a psychiatrist to fix this one….. Watching the video, my practice swing (doing a continuous swing drill or a pre-shot swing) is perfect. My real swing has a disgusting over the top move which is killing my game. I have done every drill in the book, but I cannot make my real swing look like the practice version.
Have you tried practising with a practice ball, you know – one of those light balls full of holes, as you’re certainly not going hit it very far. Other than that I would suggest that you stick a tee in the ground, address it and then close your eyes. Have a friend randomly put a ball on the tee and say "ready" so that you can execute your ‘practice swing’ with your eyes closed, not knowing in advance if a ball is there or not.
The pro I worked with (before he moved away) actually got me to practice swing and then randomly inserted a ball on the tee. I hit some really good shots this way… I know my practice swing is good (at least better than my actual swing) because I can freeze frame it on the video, finding that I am generally in a far better position than my normal swing. Also, my tempo is far better, as my real swing is jerkier – it looks like someone else is swinging the club. I think I might spend a couple of weeks doing continuous swinging without a ball, just videoing occasionally to check that my swing is on plane. Then I will reintroduce a ball and see what happens. Because I have played for a long time with an injury which affected my game (now recovered), I think I now mentally expect to hit a bad shot…. Maybe I need to "go to a happy place"! Troy
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Think I need a psychiatrist to fix this one….. Watching the video, my practice swing (doing a continuous swing drill or a pre-shot swing) is perfect. My real swing has a disgusting over the top move which is killing my game. I have done every drill in the book, but I cannot make my real swing look like the practice version. Have you tried practising with a practice ball, you know – one of those light balls full of holes, as you’re certainly not going hit it very far. Other than that I would suggest that you stick a tee in the ground, address it and then close your eyes. Have a friend randomly put a ball on the tee and say "ready" so that you can execute your ‘practice swing’ with your eyes closed, not knowing in advance if a ball is there or not.
Think I need a psychiatrist to fix this one….. Watching the video, my practice swing (doing a continuous swing drill or a pre-shot swing) is perfect. My real swing has a disgusting over the top move which is killing my game. I have done every drill in the book, but I cannot make my real swing look like the practice version. Troy
You’re rushing your swing. Do your practice swings at a super slow pace and maintain a light grip. Then hit the ball.
Think I need a psychiatrist to fix this one….. Watching the video, my practice swing (doing a continuous swing drill or a pre-shot swing) is perfect. My real swing has a disgusting over the top move which is killing my game. I have done every drill in the book, but I cannot make my real swing look like the practice version.
me!! Then again your practice swing might actually be bad too. The only way to really know is if you hit a ball with it. Ball flight matters, not swing mechanics.
Use the same swing tempo hitting your driver as you would when hitting an easy 7 iron…. works for me! Also remember to keep your right elbow tucked in as best you can which will help your over the top problem….
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Think I need a psychiatrist to fix this one….. Watching the video, my practice swing (doing a continuous swing drill or a pre-shot swing) is perfect. My real swing has a disgusting over the top move which is killing my game. I have done every drill in the book, but I cannot make my real swing look like the practice version. me!! Troy
A lot of times a duffer’s practice swing is better than their real swing, but I’ll bet you substantial funds their practice swing is still a duffer’s swing from setup to backswing to downswing, impact and finish. Sorry, if you really did have a perfect practice swing, it would hold up when the little white ball is placed on the ground. David A.
Thanks David, for letting me know that I am a "duffer". You have not seen my swing (or practice swing), but I am sure that if you did, you would change your opinion. No, my practice swing is not perfect, but it is significantly better than my real swing (the video is evidence, as well as the comments of my regular playing partners, one of whom is a scratch marker and ex-state champion, but probably a duffer as well!). My practice swing is the only thing that is at least consistent (and yes, the video from all angles shows that while my swing is not perfect, it is not at all bad), as my real swing is jerky, off plane and has a terrible transition. If I could get hit the ball with my practice swing, I would be much better off, even if I was still a duffer. Troy
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A lot of times a duffer’s practice swing is better than their real swing, but I’ll bet you substantial funds their practice swing is still a duffer’s swing from setup to backswing to downswing, impact and finish. Sorry, if you really did have a perfect practice swing, it would hold up when the little white ball is placed on the ground. David A.
Just a quick footnote. Went to the range tonight and concentrated on nothing but replicating the tempo of my practice swing. During the practice swing I tried to ensure I was on plane, had a slight in-out downswing etc., but tried to forget all of this during the actual swing. My balls striking was not perfect and I have not viewed the video yet, but it was the straightest I have hit the ball for a long time. I hit about thirty three woods (in lots of ten between iron shots) and think I would have missed the fairway on our course about five times. Given that I only hit one fairway on my last round, this would seem to be a fair improvement. Hopefully I can take the same uncluttered mind onto the golf course…. At least I will go out there with some more confidence. Troy
-Posted and Emailed-
:Well, what does work for everyone (most of us) who can make a :beautiful practice swing and then screw up the real shot is this: : :Simply warm up and then swing with a TINY percentage of your full :effort. Annika Sorenstam and Byron Nelson and probably most of the :successful pros all say they NEVER swing with more than 70% of their :full strength. they learned to make a very conscious effort to hold :back. More effort = poorer results. : :I have my best rounds after going to the range with that idea. I warm :up with half shots and then I try to swing a middle iron with ZERO :grip pressure and NO arm tension. I don’t care how far or how :straight the first dozen balls go. Amazingly, after that, with the :same zero grip pressure and no arm tension, no "muscle" the balls go :straight and far, the same distance as when I try to overpower it. : : AND, out on the course they do that when the "chips are down" driving :and even 150 out, everyone about the same place after the drives, and :a serious bet on the line. When I just relax and swing with no :tension, I can hit the green. Most others tense up and hit behind the :ball, top it, or hit it sideways after a poor turn, etc. etc. : :Folks, this is the "secret." There is no secret except that none of us :can FORCE a golf club. We must relax. : :It is also fun to go around 18 with no tension, no sweat, and no back :ache. : :Larry Fantastic post, Larry. Just fantastic. I’m saving this one and will try this out at the range today and hopefully on the course tomorrow. I know you’re right. Thanks!! Dan : :I do look at the ball. Even at the inside of the ball to try to get the :inside-out swing thing happening.. Maybe I need to be more specific, as you :suggest. Won’t hurt to try it. : :Thanks :Troy
:
: : : :me!! : : : : What are you looking at when you make your practice swing? : : : Try focussing on a blade of grass or similar…..and hit it! : : : cheers : david : : :
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – -Posted and Emailed- :Well, what does work for everyone (most of us) who can make a :beautiful practice swing and then screw up the real shot is this: : :Simply warm up and then swing with a TINY percentage of your full :effort. Annika Sorenstam and Byron Nelson and probably most of the :successful pros all say they NEVER swing with more than 70% of their :full strength. they learned to make a very conscious effort to hold :back. More effort = poorer results. : :I have my best rounds after going to the range with that idea. I warm :up with half shots and then I try to swing a middle iron with ZERO :grip pressure and NO arm tension. I don’t care how far or how :straight the first dozen balls go. Amazingly, after that, with the :same zero grip pressure and no arm tension, no "muscle" the balls go :straight and far, the same distance as when I try to overpower it. : : AND, out on the course they do that when the "chips are down" driving :and even 150 out, everyone about the same place after the drives, and :a serious bet on the line. When I just relax and swing with no :tension, I can hit the green. Most others tense up and hit behind the :ball, top it, or hit it sideways after a poor turn, etc. etc. : :Folks, this is the "secret." There is no secret except that none of us :can FORCE a golf club. We must relax. : :It is also fun to go around 18 with no tension, no sweat, and no back :ache. : :Larry Fantastic post, Larry. Just fantastic. I’m saving this one and will try this out at the range today and hopefully on the course tomorrow. I know you’re right. Thanks!! Dan : :I do look at the ball. Even at the inside of the ball to try to get the :inside-out swing thing happening.. Maybe I need to be more specific, as you :suggest. Won’t hurt to try it. : :Thanks :Troy : : : : :me!! : : : : What are you looking at when you make your practice swing? : : : Try focussing on a blade of grass or similar…..and hit it! : : : cheers : david : : :
I did exactly that last night, took a 5 and a 7 to hit some balls, warmed up with the seven hitting relaxed, really loose and moved on to hit the 5 – 165ish yards, all within 10-12 foot spread without really trying to hit the ball. At this point I got carried away and tried to hit the ball hard, then it all went tits up. So I tried to go back to hitting really loose, free swings toward a cone at about 150 yards away with the 7 iron, brilliant, just by relaxing and letting the club flow I was hitting 10 foot of my imaginary flag and it all came back again. If I keep the swing simple and let it flow with no tension I hit the ball a good distance and fairly straight. If I try to hit it, I don’t. I often tell my tennis pupils the same thing, they all try to muscle their serves or groundies and not use their bodies and let the stroke flow. The same seems to be true of golf. Considering I only picked up a club a week ago I’m pretty pleased with myself!!! Ash
One other option… wear two gloves for exteneded practice… prevents blisters too.
Two words: GauzeTape. –Blair "Okay. One word."
how do you use gauze tape? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One other option… wear two gloves for exteneded practice… prevents blisters too. Two words: GauzeTape. –Blair "Okay. One word."
One other option… wear two gloves for exteneded practice… prevents blisters too. Two words: GauzeTape. –Blair "Okay. One word."
Actually, I use a foam medical tape I found at Rite-Aid I think.
how do you use gauze tape?
Wrap it 1.5 times around your finger with the doubled-up part over where you usually get a blister. Doesn’t help a bit with wet hands, but keeps the blisters away. –Blair "So it’s a lot like a golf tip, because it’s not the answer."
Try www.dryhands.com. Don’t laugh, I ordered the stuff and used it for the first time last weekend. It works. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I go to a range I hit many balls with my driver. I have lampkin grips..but my non-glove hand gets slippery. Any suggestions? Should I clean my grips with soap and water? Thanks, Ken
When I go to a range I hit many balls with my driver. I have lampkin grips..but my non-glove hand gets slippery. Any suggestions? Should I clean my grips with soap and water?
I carry a glove for each hand, but rarely use one on my bottom hand. The top hand is an order of magnitude more important. Try www.dryhands.com. Don’t laugh, I ordered the stuff and used it for the first time last weekend. It works.
What’s in it? –Blair "Monsoon season is here."
When I go to a range I hit many balls with my driver. I have lampkin grips..but my non-glove hand gets slippery. Any suggestions? Should I clean my grips with soap and water? Thanks, Ken
Make sure your grips are clean (meaning grease and oil free). Wash your hands with a good grease cutting soap before you start. Wash them again in the middle of ths session if necessary. NEVER EVER allow any type of lotion to get on your grips… this includes sun tanning/blocking products, hand loations, etc. One other option… wear two gloves for exteneded practice… prevents blisters too.
When I go to a range I hit many balls with my driver. I have lampkin grips..but my non-glove hand gets slippery. Any suggestions? Should I clean my grips with soap and water? Thanks, Ken
When I go to a range I hit many balls with my driver. I have lampkin grips..but my non-glove hand gets slippery. Any suggestions? Should I clean my grips with soap and water? Thanks, Ken
I keep a rosin bag in my golf bag. That really helps with sweaty hands. — Jim Sabatke Hire Me!! – See my resume at http://my.execpc.com/~jsabatke Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
This is a revisit of the shot comparison that Bret (Annika1980) brought up awhile ago. I’ve looked at my last five rounds, splitting them up into full shots, and anything that would fall into the finesse/short game/chipping/putting category. Average score – 83.4 Average Rating – 71.14 Average Slope – 121.8 Basically, what I see is that my tee to green (full shot) game isn’t leaving a great deal of room for improvement. I average just over 37 strokes there. Occasionally a duffed iron, hazard, or OB will bite me, but for the most part it’s pretty boring. I could hit my short irons *closer*, but that wouldn’t change the number of strokes on average, just put me closer to help lower my putt count. The short game stat is worse – deplorable, actually; 46.2 strokes on average inside 50 yards. And, this average is actually *higher* than when I’ve checked it in the past. So, guess who won’t be invited to put on a short game clinic anytime soon? (If you want to see how to hit the driver 300 + yards in the fairway, give me a call ) The culprit is simply a combination of poor execution of chips and putts, nothing more. I bet I’ve been to the range to hit full shots exactly twice this year. I really don’t need to practice the long game that much. But Lord, how my short game suffers without regular practice (I haven’t done much of that either)! It’s clear that none of the following will lower my scores: New driver New irons New shafts New ball (well, this might be a factor if I was chipping and putting *off* of greens, which I’m not) New golf attire or shoes New golf bag So, I resolve to spend as much time reasonably as I can working on my short game, especially putting inside of ten feet, where I find myself most of the time. The answer – it’s putting … unless you hack it all over the course, through the woods, into ponds, then it might be driving. Ron
It’s clear that none of the following will lower my scores: New driver New irons New shafts New ball (well, this might be a factor if I was chipping and putting *off* of greens, which I’m not) New golf attire or shoes New golf bag
How about a new rabbit’s foot? (I think a LOT of golf products are leaning towards that category)
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is a revisit of the shot comparison that Bret (Annika1980) brought up awhile ago. I’ve looked at my last five rounds, splitting them up into full shots, and anything that would fall into the finesse/short game/chipping/putting category. Average score – 83.4 Average Rating – 71.14 Average Slope – 121.8 Basically, what I see is that my tee to green (full shot) game isn’t leaving a great deal of room for improvement. I average just over 37 strokes there. Occasionally a duffed iron, hazard, or OB will bite me, but for the most part it’s pretty boring. I could hit my short irons *closer*, but that wouldn’t change the number of strokes on average, just put me closer to help lower my putt count. The short game stat is worse – deplorable, actually; 46.2 strokes on average inside 50 yards. And, this average is actually *higher* than when I’ve checked it in the past. So, guess who won’t be invited to put on a short game clinic anytime soon? (If you want to see how to hit the driver 300 + yards in the fairway, give me a call ) The culprit is simply a combination of poor execution of chips and putts, nothing more. I bet I’ve been to the range to hit full shots exactly twice this year. I really don’t need to practice the long game that much. But Lord, how my short game suffers without regular practice (I haven’t done much of that either)! It’s clear that none of the following will lower my scores: New driver New irons New shafts New ball (well, this might be a factor if I was chipping and putting *off* of greens, which I’m not) New golf attire or shoes New golf bag So, I resolve to spend as much time reasonably as I can working on my short game, especially putting inside of ten feet, where I find myself most of the time. The answer – it’s putting … unless you hack it all over the course, through the woods, into ponds, then it might be driving. Ron
The best way to lower your putts per round is to improve your chipping. If you are close enough to the green to chip–say 5-10 yards off the green with room to run the ball on landing—you can get up / down at least 50% of the time and maybe more. Last week I hit 11 of 18 greens, so I missed 7 times. I shot one over 72. Gotta chip close.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is a revisit of the shot comparison that Bret (Annika1980) brought up awhile ago. I’ve looked at my last five rounds, splitting them up into full shots, and anything that would fall into the finesse/short game/chipping/putting category. Average score – 83.4 Average Rating – 71.14 Average Slope – 121.8 Basically, what I see is that my tee to green (full shot) game isn’t leaving a great deal of room for improvement. I average just over 37 strokes there. Occasionally a duffed iron, hazard, or OB will bite me, but for the most part it’s pretty boring. I could hit my short irons *closer*, but that wouldn’t change the number of strokes on average, just put me closer to help lower my putt count. The short game stat is worse – deplorable, actually; 46.2 strokes on average inside 50 yards. And, this average is actually *higher* than when I’ve checked it in the past. So, guess who won’t be invited to put on a short game clinic anytime soon? (If you want to see how to hit the driver 300 + yards in the fairway, give me a call ) The culprit is simply a combination of poor execution of chips and putts, nothing more. I bet I’ve been to the range to hit full shots exactly twice this year. I really don’t need to practice the long game that much. But Lord, how my short game suffers without regular practice (I haven’t done much of that either)! It’s clear that none of the following will lower my scores: New driver New irons New shafts New ball (well, this might be a factor if I was chipping and putting *off* of greens, which I’m not) New golf attire or shoes New golf bag So, I resolve to spend as much time reasonably as I can working on my short game, especially putting inside of ten feet, where I find myself most of the time. The answer – it’s putting … unless you hack it all over the course, through the woods, into ponds, then it might be driving. Ron The best way to lower your putts per round is to improve your chipping. If you are close enough to the green to chip–say 5-10 yards off the green with room to run the ball on landing—you can get up / down at least 50% of the time and maybe more. Last week I hit 11 of 18 greens, so I missed 7 times. I shot one over 72. Gotta chip close.
You’re right, of course. I do find that I’m a ways from the hole at times, but also really close just off the green a bunch. It’s a good chip, followed by a good putt if needed, for a birdie or to save par. As I said above, a combination of chipping and putting, but leaning more to good putting for me. I’m starting to think that a good way to practice would be to toss balls out around the practice green randomly, then work on getting my up and down percentage as high as possible. Usually I hit a lot of chips, then a lot of putts. I may change the way I practice, making it more of a game. Ron
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is a revisit of the shot comparison that Bret (Annika1980) brought up awhile ago. I’ve looked at my last five rounds, splitting them up into full shots, and anything that would fall into the finesse/short game/chipping/putting category. Average score – 83.4 Average Rating – 71.14 Average Slope – 121.8 Basically, what I see is that my tee to green (full shot) game isn’t leaving a great deal of room for improvement. I average just over 37 strokes there. Occasionally a duffed iron, hazard, or OB will bite me, but for the most part it’s pretty boring. I could hit my short irons *closer*, but that wouldn’t change the number of strokes on average, just put me closer to help lower my putt count. The short game stat is worse – deplorable, actually; 46.2 strokes on average inside 50 yards. And, this average is actually *higher* than when I’ve checked it in the past. So, guess who won’t be invited to put on a short game clinic anytime soon? (If you want to see how to hit the driver 300 + yards in the fairway, give me a call ) The culprit is simply a combination of poor execution of chips and putts, nothing more. I bet I’ve been to the range to hit full shots exactly twice this year. I really don’t need to practice the long game that much. But Lord, how my short game suffers without regular practice (I haven’t done much of that either)! It’s clear that none of the following will lower my scores: New driver New irons New shafts New ball (well, this might be a factor if I was chipping and putting *off* of greens, which I’m not) New golf attire or shoes New golf bag So, I resolve to spend as much time reasonably as I can working on my short game, especially putting inside of ten feet, where I find myself most of the time. The answer – it’s putting … unless you hack it all over the course, through the woods, into ponds, then it might be driving. Ron
Nice post. I remember the days while trying to break 100. I was always close but felt the few blowup holes were screwing me over. The instructor I was taking lessons with had a weird way of making a point at times. He had me record a round and each club I used. I shot something rediculous like 107. The next week he looked at the card and said it plain and simple: Take all the "three puts" and recalculate as if they were "2 putts". (I was so perplexed at his statement I actually had a problem adding it up.) That dropped the score by something like a dozen strokes. Now the lightbulb comes on (duh). Of course that was more in this, and we applied the "what if’s" to missed greens and stuff like that. Looking at it by the numbers gave me a new perspective on putting and short game.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re right, of course. I do find that I’m a ways from the hole at times, but also really close just off the green a bunch. It’s a good chip, followed by a good putt if needed, for a birdie or to save par. As I said above, a combination of chipping and putting, but leaning more to good putting for me. I’m starting to think that a good way to practice would be to toss balls out around the practice green randomly, then work on getting my up and down percentage as high as possible. Usually I hit a lot of chips, then a lot of putts. I may change the way I practice, making it more of a game. Ron
It’s just that I firmly believe that chipping is the easiest part of golf. In terms of getting strokes back, chipping is easy to learn, and you can get quick results from improving it. If you don’t feel you chip well, fixing that skill will give you real fast returns on your invested practice time. I don’t mean holing chips, I mean chipping up to be able to get 1 putts to fall over 50% of the time.
I need some advice from you people using a stand bag.
I can’t tell you what to buy, because as you can see from my rant posting here I’m not happy with the options, but I can tell you what to check out when you go shopping. Stand — make sure it is rock steady. If the stand is sloppy the bag may blow over in the wind or tend to flop and break it. The pings are about the solidest, but not the only ones that seem sturdy. In general you want one where the legs come out high on the bag and well separated for stability. They also vary a lot in how high the bag sits. (Some are almost vertical, nice to be able to reach easily but less stable, while others (notably the pings) sit very low which is stable but means a bit more bending to get stuff out of the pockets or pick them up. Check the opening mechanism, especially if it will open on thick grass if you can. Most now use some kind of lever arm to push the legs out when you put weight on it and some aren’t long enough to force them out if you put the bag down on long grass. Straps — the biggest thing is comfort. Second, if you ever think you want to carry it on one side only even for a little bit (I find this convenient just for moving short distances), make sure you get one where this works. Some have straps that attach in such a way that the bag will hang vertically if you try this and it’s not very comfortable. Then look at comfort and durability. Padding should be solid, and the strap system should fit your body and the way you play. I really like the "old" izzo ones with two independent straps best, but others swear by other styles. Usually you can get just about anything to hang rite on your shoulders if you fiddle with the adjustment points. Many have multiple points to attach the lower straps and moving them may well solve an imbalance problem (otherwise you can just put a few pounds of old balls in one of the lower pockets to force it to hang lower Bag — make sure it fits your clubs the way you want to organize them. Some now come with club organizer systems which are great if that’s what you want. Others really insist you put certain clubs in certain places. Some are tight for 13 clubs and a ball retriever. Will it go on a cart and do you care? The old sun mountain bags with diagonal bottoms were a bit of a pain on a cart because they didn’t want to sit vertically. I’ve heard mixed reviews on how well the Pings, which bend at the bottom, will sit on a cart. May or may not be an issue for you. — http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery ) I’m using my – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – girlfriend’s dad’s Nicklaus Bear bag. I don’t mind it, but it’s got a couple of problems. 1. It feels like it wants to dump the clubs out the side when it’s on (I juryrigged the thing so it’s ok) 2. The feet don’t want to come out when you set it down…you have to set it down and then fold it over. 3. the friggin’ handle is hitting me on the small of the back…and it hurts…(I’ve had surgery and it rubs on my scar). please…let me know what kind of bags you guys are using and why you guys are using it. Thanks, Desi
If you will sometimes use a push cart, you might want to have some removable pockets with everything in them that you don’t want to carry around with you on your back. My bag is pleasant to carry when I leave my heavy pocket in the car. Oddly enough, I am now leaving that pocket behind if I take a driving cart. That’s because it is not uncommon at all for me to take my cart off as I walk to a place where I don’t know what my club selection will be. But I have seen a cart bag once that had a removable sub-bag. That would be ideal for cart riders, being able to grab a few clubs in a bag, leaving most of the big bag on the cart. But I’m primarily a walker, carrying as often as I push, so I don’t have a cart bag.
please…let me know what kind of bags you guys are using and why you guys are using it. Thanks,
I use an old Belding Balance bag. I love it; have never found anything close to the comfort of their backpack style strap. But walking bags are like sneakers — you only know which one fits you best by trying them on. So go to a golf superstore, take a set of clubs and a box of balls off of the racks, load them in the bag, and walk around a little. You’ll know immediately whether you have the right or wrong one. Jesse
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I need some advice from you people using a stand bag. I’m using my girlfriend’s dad’s Nicklaus Bear bag. I don’t mind it, but it’s got a couple of problems. 1. It feels like it wants to dump the clubs out the side when it’s on (I juryrigged the thing so it’s ok) 2. The feet don’t want to come out when you set it down…you have to set it down and then fold it over. 3. the friggin’ handle is hitting me on the small of the back…and it hurts…(I’ve had surgery and it rubs on my scar). please…let me know what kind of bags you guys are using and why you guys are using it. Thanks, Desi
I’m using and old canvas Izzo Stand Bag I bought from my dad a few years back. Works great, no problems at all. A friend of mine recently bought a set of Golden Bears with a stand bag and his does not display the problems you mention. Your girlfriend’s dad’s bag might just be real old. ac
The best stand bag I have tried is the OGIO Kolby. The Golf Warehouse (www.tgw.com) has them on closeout right now for less than $100. James – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I need some advice from you people using a stand bag. I’m using my girlfriend’s dad’s Nicklaus Bear bag. I don’t mind it, but it’s got a couple of problems. 1. It feels like it wants to dump the clubs out the side when it’s on (I juryrigged the thing so it’s ok) 2. The feet don’t want to come out when you set it down…you have to set it down and then fold it over. 3. the friggin’ handle is hitting me on the small of the back…and it hurts…(I’ve had surgery and it rubs on my scar). please…let me know what kind of bags you guys are using and why you guys are using it. Thanks, Desi
I just bought my husband an Ogio Grom. I asked the guys in the Pro Shop at our club which they would rather have, the Grom or the EXO. They both said the Grom – the EXO’s extra features didn’t do much for the extra price. It’s 5.25 lbs and seems to have enough pockets for the stuff he carries now in his ancient Sun Mountain bag. It has a nice little feature in a walking-accessible water bottle holder. It stands nicely on it’s bottom for putting on a cart. It does seem rather nifty. BTW: Thanks to the guys who suggested the Callaway HX Red balls as the replacement for the Rule 35s for my husband. He used them for the first time last night and really liked them! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I need some advice from you people using a stand bag. I’m using my girlfriend’s dad’s Nicklaus Bear bag. I don’t mind it, but it’s got a couple of problems. 1. It feels like it wants to dump the clubs out the side when it’s on (I juryrigged the thing so it’s ok) 2. The feet don’t want to come out when you set it down…you have to set it down and then fold it over. 3. the friggin’ handle is hitting me on the small of the back…and it hurts…(I’ve had surgery and it rubs on my scar). please…let me know what kind of bags you guys are using and why you guys are using it. Thanks, Desi
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Desi. Get a Ping Hoofer. You shouldn’t have to experience "pain" just to carry a golf bag. Good luck and let us know what your choice is.
ditto that!
I have a Sun Mountain 3.5 and it’s great. Plenty of pocket room, six dividers (three full length), solid steady stand mechanism. And at 3.5 pounds, it’s great for my fragile back. I usually only carry 12 clubs and don’t put a lot of extras in my bag to keep it really light, but even with a full set and some bag goodies it’s not too heavy. Chris – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I need some advice from you people using a stand bag. I’m using my girlfriend’s dad’s Nicklaus Bear bag. I don’t mind it, but it’s got a couple of problems. 1. It feels like it wants to dump the clubs out the side when it’s on (I juryrigged the thing so it’s ok) 2. The feet don’t want to come out when you set it down…you have to set it down and then fold it over. 3. the friggin’ handle is hitting me on the small of the back…and it hurts…(I’ve had surgery and it rubs on my scar). please…let me know what kind of bags you guys are using and why you guys are using it. Thanks, Desi
Art, no he just got it from Costco last year….I had back surgery in january and my scar is sensitive….it hurts when the damn thing hits it. Desi
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I need some advice from you people using a stand bag. I’m using my girlfriend’s dad’s Nicklaus Bear bag. I don’t mind it, but it’s got a couple of problems. 1. It feels like it wants to dump the clubs out the side when it’s on (I juryrigged the thing so it’s ok) 2. The feet don’t want to come out when you set it down…you have to set it down and then fold it over. 3. the friggin’ handle is hitting me on the small of the back…and it hurts…(I’ve had surgery and it rubs on my scar). please…let me know what kind of bags you guys are using and why you guys are using it. Thanks, Desi I’m using and old canvas Izzo Stand Bag I bought from my dad a few years back. Works great, no problems at all. A friend of mine recently bought a set of Golden Bears with a stand bag and his does not display the problems you mention. Your girlfriend’s dad’s bag might just be real old. ac
I’ll second that as well – I bought a Ping Hoofer 3 this year and it is the best walking bag I have ever had, bar none. Extremely comfortable, lightweight, good pocket system. Rich. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Desi. Get a Ping Hoofer. You shouldn’t have to experience "pain" just to carry a golf bag. Good luck and let us know what your choice is. I need some advice from you people using a stand bag. I’m using my girlfriend’s dad’s Nicklaus Bear bag. I don’t mind it, but it’s got a couple of problems. 1. It feels like it wants to dump the clubs out the side when it’s on (I juryrigged the thing so it’s ok) 2. The feet don’t want to come out when you set it down…you have to set it down and then fold it over. 3. the friggin’ handle is hitting me on the small of the back…and it hurts…(I’ve had surgery and it rubs on my scar). please…let me know what kind of bags you guys are using and why you guys are using it. Thanks, Desi
<snipped please…let me know what kind of bags you guys are using and why you guys are using it. Thanks, Desi
Desi, See my reply to Warren in his "why don’t they make a better bag?" thread. — Dan Driscoll Member – NCGA RSG FAQ: http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html RSG Roll Call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=driscolld
please…let me know what kind of bags you guys are using and why you guys are using it. Thanks,
I’ve got a Titleist SX08 – its current equivalent is the X37, I think. It’s a little larger than the Ping Hoofer and a little heavier, but it also allows me to pull my oversized-grip clubs out without fighting the bag. It’s also got two features I really like – a cooler pocket and a lined pocket for valuables (soft so it won’t scratch my Oakleys). I also like the double-strap system better on the Titleist than the ping – it’s more backpack like. Anyway, I don’t think you could go wrong with either bag, Desi. Good luck! Prof. Rev. Todd "Runyan" McGillivray, Esq. http://cplhicks.tripod.com/ Emailing me? tmcg at sasktel dot net. "Even the Mona Lisa’s fallin’ apart." – Fight Club
I need some advice from you people using a stand bag. I’m using my girlfriend’s dad’s Nicklaus Bear bag. I don’t mind it, but it’s got a couple of problems. 1. It feels like it wants to dump the clubs out the side when it’s on (I juryrigged the thing so it’s ok) 2. The feet don’t want to come out when you set it down…you have to set it down and then fold it over. 3. the friggin’ handle is hitting me on the small of the back…and it hurts…(I’ve had surgery and it rubs on my scar). please…let me know what kind of bags you guys are using and why you guys are using it. Thanks, Desi
Desi. Get a Ping Hoofer. You shouldn’t have to experience "pain" just to carry a golf bag. Good luck and let us know what your choice is. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I need some advice from you people using a stand bag. I’m using my girlfriend’s dad’s Nicklaus Bear bag. I don’t mind it, but it’s got a couple of problems. 1. It feels like it wants to dump the clubs out the side when it’s on (I juryrigged the thing so it’s ok) 2. The feet don’t want to come out when you set it down…you have to set it down and then fold it over. 3. the friggin’ handle is hitting me on the small of the back…and it hurts…(I’ve had surgery and it rubs on my scar). please…let me know what kind of bags you guys are using and why you guys are using it. Thanks, Desi
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I need some advice from you people using a stand bag. I’m using my girlfriend’s dad’s Nicklaus Bear bag. I don’t mind it, but it’s got a couple of problems. 1. It feels like it wants to dump the clubs out the side when it’s on (I juryrigged the thing so it’s ok) 2. The feet don’t want to come out when you set it down…you have to set it down and then fold it over. 3. the friggin’ handle is hitting me on the small of the back…and it hurts…(I’ve had surgery and it rubs on my scar). please…let me know what kind of bags you guys are using and why you guys are using it. Thanks, Desi
Sounds like your bag may have just seen better days…… I bought the a carry bag by Great Divider. I like it because it has full length divider for my clubs….. It could use more zippered compartments though; Even if they are
Try Gold Moutain – Olympic Course in Bremerton. Great course. Beautiful setting. Future site of USGA Publinx. Worth the drive or the ferry trip. Referred to me by Scott Newell. Ken – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey Golfers, I’m headed out to Seattle, WA to spend time with my family and i would like to play a little while i’m out there. Does anyone have some recommendations on public courses out there? I’ve been looking at the SeattleGolfGuide.com to get some ideas, but that page doesn’t give course descriptions. I’d like to play somewhere with lots of trees, good views, etc. Oh yeah…. i’d also love to break 100. Can someone arrange that for me? ;) Thanks, Don W
Another one to try is Jackson Park. It’s actually in Seattle and was getting quite a makeover this spring.
I’ve been checking out the web pages, and Carnation does look pretty good. Due to luggage restraints i think i’m going to leave the golf bag at home, only pack my SW and putter and rent the rest at the course. Another hobby i have is sampling exotic and micro brews, i’m sure i’ll be lugging home at least a case of some brew taking up a lot of weight. Thanks for the great advice! Don W
I’ve been checking out the web pages, and Carnation does look pretty good.
In that category of course, you’d probably also like Mt. Si which is not far from Carnation. I would recommend you get the paperback book "Golfing in Washington" by Daniel MacMillan. He’s put out an annual guide to Washington courses for quite a few years. It gives a brief description of every course in the state, I think, along with a simple map of the layout, the length of holes, shows sand & water, and gives the course rating and slope. It also includes directions to the courses. You can find it in any golf shop in Seattle. You can also find it on Amazon if you want to pick it up before you come out. The Seattle Times also publishes info on all courses in the area. Check out the stuff in the left hand column. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/golf/ Dave
I forgot abot Mt Si. Thats a good choice – its a bit further from city than carnation, but better maintained and very pretty and fun. A very good choice. As for your beer drinking , be sure to take the Red Hook Brewry "tour". Its the best brewery tour in the country – basically you never leave the tasting room, unless you really want to. Its $1 for TWO people, or you can print the coupon from their website and not even pay the $1 !
As for your beer drinking , be sure to take the Red Hook Brewry "tour". Its the best brewery tour in the country – basically you never leave the tasting room, unless you really want to. Its $1 for TWO people, or you can print the coupon from their website and not even pay the $1 !
Already done! I’ve had their Red Hook, it’s not bad. The Blackhook is VERY good, i am definately bringing some of that home!! Don W
How can you not mention Kayak Point. Well worth the senic (after getting off I-5) hour drive to Stanwood. Great muni with awsome views of the North Sound! www.kayakpoint.com Also, Druid’s Glen, haven’t played it, but heard alot of praise. Echo Falls, Tall Cheif, Willows Run… MANY good courses in greater Seattle area. I recommend Kayak Point.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don – Lots of excellent public courses – how much do you want to spend ? What area of Seattle will you be in ? I can narrow list down better. Very expensive but picturesque: Newcastle. Not tall trees, but fantastic views of city on a clear day. Spectacular club house. Spendy, but not as much as newcastle: Trophy Lakes. The following three will all meet your desire for lots of tall trees. All are GREAT plays. On every one of those courses, you’ll walk with deers, etc. Excellent and more reasonably priced, especially on weekdays: Druids Glen (a real favorite of mine), McCormick Woods. Excellent, and CHEAP, but crowded and hard to get tee time: Gold Mountain. Perhaps the best muni course in the country besides Beth Page or Torrey Pines. Easy, fun , cheap course that has plenty of tall trees is Carnation. Its not in same caliber as the ones above, but the back nine is very picturesque. Greens are excellent, but course is flat , fairways not that well maintained or defined from rough. But price is right and you’ll still have a good time for sure. The city muin course jefferson park is a similar description. Bellevue Municipal is yet another in this caliber – its better maintained than carnation, but more crowded. If yu were well north or south of city, there are other good choices – many quite reasonable. Email me directly if you have more questions or want more advice. Most (if not all) of the above courses have their own web sites – do a google search by their name and check them out in more detail. Hey Golfers, I’m headed out to Seattle, WA to spend time with my family and i would like to play a little while i’m out there. Does anyone have some recommendations on public courses out there? I’ve been looking at the SeattleGolfGuide.com to get some ideas, but that page doesn’t give course descriptions. I’d like to play somewhere with lots of trees, good views, etc. Oh yeah…. i’d also love to break 100. Can someone arrange that for me? ;) Thanks, Don W
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don – Lots of excellent public courses – how much do you want to spend ? What area of Seattle will you be in ? I can narrow list down better. Very expensive but picturesque: Newcastle. Not tall trees, but fantastic views of city on a clear day. Spectacular club house. Spendy, but not as much as newcastle: Trophy Lakes. The following three will all meet your desire for lots of tall trees. All are GREAT plays. On every one of those courses, you’ll walk with deers, etc. Excellent and more reasonably priced, especially on weekdays: Druids Glen (a real favorite of mine), McCormick Woods. Excellent, and CHEAP, but crowded and hard to get tee time: Gold Mountain. Perhaps the best muni course in the country besides Beth Page or Torrey Pines. Easy, fun , cheap course that has plenty of tall trees is Carnation. Its not in same caliber as the ones above, but the back nine is very picturesque. Greens are excellent, but course is flat , fairways not that well maintained or defined from rough. But price is right and you’ll still have a good time for sure. The city muin course jefferson park is a similar description. Bellevue Municipal is yet another in this caliber – its better maintained than carnation, but more crowded. If yu were well north or south of city, there are other good choices – many quite reasonable. Email me directly if you have more questions or want more advice. Most (if not all) of the above courses have their own web sites – do a google search by their name and check them out in more detail. Hey Golfers, I’m headed out to Seattle, WA to spend time with my family and i would like to play a little while i’m out there. Does anyone have some recommendations on public courses out there? I’ve been looking at the SeattleGolfGuide.com to get some ideas, but that page doesn’t give course descriptions. I’d like to play somewhere with lots of trees, good views, etc. Oh yeah…. i’d also love to break 100. Can someone arrange that for me? ;) Thanks, Don W
Ditto on Gold Mountain. M – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Hey Golfers, I’m headed out to Seattle, WA to spend time with my family and i would like to play a little while i’m out there. Does anyone have some recommendations on public courses out there? I’ve been looking at the SeattleGolfGuide.com to get some ideas, but that page doesn’t give course descriptions. I’d like to play somewhere with lots of trees, good views, etc. Oh yeah…. i’d also love to break 100. Can someone arrange that for me? ;) Thanks, Don W
Don – Lots of excellent public courses – how much do you want to spend ? What area of Seattle will you be in ? I can narrow list down better. Very expensive but picturesque: Newcastle. Not tall trees, but fantastic views of city on a clear day. Spectacular club house. Spendy, but not as much as newcastle: Trophy Lakes. The following three will all meet your desire for lots of tall trees. All are GREAT plays. On every one of those courses, you’ll walk with deers, etc. Excellent and more reasonably priced, especially on weekdays: Druids Glen (a real favorite of mine), McCormick Woods. Excellent, and CHEAP, but crowded and hard to get tee time: Gold Mountain. Perhaps the best muni course in the country besides Beth Page or Torrey Pines. Easy, fun , cheap course that has plenty of tall trees is Carnation. Its not in same caliber as the ones above, but the back nine is very picturesque. Greens are excellent, but course is flat , fairways not that well maintained or defined from rough. But price is right and you’ll still have a good time for sure. The city muin course jefferson park is a similar description. Bellevue Municipal is yet another in this caliber – its better maintained than carnation, but more crowded. If yu were well north or south of city, there are other good choices – many quite reasonable. Email me directly if you have more questions or want more advice. Most (if not all) of the above courses have their own web sites – do a google search by their name and check them out in more detail.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey Golfers, I’m headed out to Seattle, WA to spend time with my family and i would like to play a little while i’m out there. Does anyone have some recommendations on public courses out there? I’ve been looking at the SeattleGolfGuide.com to get some ideas, but that page doesn’t give course descriptions. I’d like to play somewhere with lots of trees, good views, etc. Oh yeah…. i’d also love to break 100. Can someone arrange that for me? ;) Thanks, Don W
So I am struggling to break 100 and I am planning how to play each hold on a favorite course this 4th of July where I want to desparately break 100, every shot will count. http://www.rookerygolf.com/layout.html the par 4 300 yd 4th hole presents and interesting dilemma. There is a big pond with your standard RISK/REWARD. layup at 150, then have a 9-iron to the green, OR you can pull out your driver and try and make it the 225+ yds over the pond. On a good drive, I can get 250 yds almost all in the air (high trajectory), with a slice often (but that doesn’t hurt on this hole). I would say I am at least 50% of the time going to get it that far…especially if I am driving it well. However, my golfing buddy Brian Trdina who used to be a scratch golfer before he went to jail on possession charges (that’s another story), tells me that at my level I should probably hit two 9-irons laying up and then easily clearing the pond. I disagree since I think that this isn’t that much smarter of a play…i could always skull the ball into the pond or screw up my tee shot and be really screwed. Thanks, -A
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So I am struggling to break 100 and I am planning how to play each hold on a favorite course this 4th of July where I want to desparately break 100, every shot will count. http://www.rookerygolf.com/layout.html the par 4 300 yd 4th hole presents and interesting dilemma. There is a big pond with your standard RISK/REWARD. layup at 150, then have a 9-iron to the green, OR you can pull out your driver and try and make it the 225+ yds over the pond. On a good drive, I can get 250 yds almost all in the air (high trajectory), with a slice often (but that doesn’t hurt on this hole). I would say I am at least 50% of the time going to get it that far…especially if I am driving it well. However, my golfing buddy Brian Trdina who used to be a scratch golfer before he went to jail on possession charges (that’s another story), tells me that at my level I should probably hit two 9-irons laying up and then easily clearing the pond. I disagree since I think that this isn’t that much smarter of a play…i could always skull the ball into the pond or screw up my tee shot and be really screwed. Thanks, -A
I think you should take his advice. Do you realize how many items in a golf bag can be used as a shank?
If you are dead set on scoring your best on this hole, do the sure thing – doesn’t matter what club it is. Whatever you know for a fact you can hit everytime. If you struggle to break 100, then there are probably not many sure things about your game. My opinion is you are putting too much pressure on yourself by saying I desperately want to shoot such and such number. Just play, hit the ball solid, the closer you get to the green be more attentive to your shot choice and the scoring will sort itself out. performance comes way before results. tim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So I am struggling to break 100 and I am planning how to play each hold on a favorite course this 4th of July where I want to desparately break 100, every shot will count. http://www.rookerygolf.com/layout.html the par 4 300 yd 4th hole presents and interesting dilemma. There is a big pond with your standard RISK/REWARD. layup at 150, then have a 9-iron to the green, OR you can pull out your driver and try and make it the 225+ yds over the pond. On a good drive, I can get 250 yds almost all in the air (high trajectory), with a slice often (but that doesn’t hurt on this hole). I would say I am at least 50% of the time going to get it that far…especially if I am driving it well. However, my golfing buddy Brian Trdina who used to be a scratch golfer before he went to jail on possession charges (that’s another story), tells me that at my level I should probably hit two 9-irons laying up and then easily clearing the pond. I disagree since I think that this isn’t that much smarter of a play…i could always skull the ball into the pond or screw up my tee shot and be really screwed. Thanks, -A
By the way I would play 5 iron off the tee and wedge to the green. tim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you are dead set on scoring your best on this hole, do the sure thing – doesn’t matter what club it is. Whatever you know for a fact you can hit everytime. If you struggle to break 100, then there are probably not many sure things about your game. My opinion is you are putting too much pressure on yourself by saying I desperately want to shoot such and such number. Just play, hit the ball solid, the closer you get to the green be more attentive to your shot choice and the scoring will sort itself out. performance comes way before results. tim So I am struggling to break 100 and I am planning how to play each hold on a favorite course this 4th of July where I want to desparately break 100, every shot will count. http://www.rookerygolf.com/layout.html the par 4 300 yd 4th hole presents and interesting dilemma. There is a big pond with your standard RISK/REWARD. layup at 150, then have a 9-iron to the green, OR you can pull out your driver and try and make it the 225+ yds over the pond. On a good drive, I can get 250 yds almost all in the air (high trajectory), with a slice often (but that doesn’t hurt on this hole). I would say I am at least 50% of the time going to get it that far…especially if I am driving it well. However, my golfing buddy Brian Trdina who used to be a scratch golfer before he went to jail on possession charges (that’s another story), tells me that at my level I should probably hit two 9-irons laying up and then easily clearing the pond. I disagree since I think that this isn’t that much smarter of a play…i could always skull the ball into the pond or screw up my tee shot and be really screwed. Thanks, -A
On a good drive, I can get 250 yds almost all in the air (high trajectory), with a slice often (but that doesn’t hurt on this hole). I would say I am at least 50% of the time going to get it that far…especially if I am driving it well.
We can analyze this statistically with some more facts: If you played the hole 100 times: What do you think your average would be for when you clear the lake with your driver? What do you think your average would be for when you lay up with your 9 iron? What do you think your average would be when you hit the ball in the lake? Remember, two 9 iron are much more likely to be on the green than one driver that clears the lake, but on the other hand, you might hit either of your 9 iron shots into the lake. Let me simplify though (at the expense of accuracy). But let’s say your 250 yard drive leaves you with an up and down 3/4 of the time which you drop 1/2 of the time. 1/4 of the time, your drive leaves you in trouble. Maybe your average is 3 3/4 for these drives. Let’s say your 200 yard drives leave you with 4 3/4 strokes, so your average is 4 1/4 strokes. Your 9 iron strategy isn’t as accurate as your 200 yard drives, but doesn’t pay the stroke penalty. Maybe it averages out 4 strokes per hole. In this case it is a better strategy. But in real life, you need to evaluate how often your 250 yard drives go into the rough, the sand, the woods, or get lost. You need to evaluate how often your 9 iron pairs go into the water. You have to evaluate how close you are after your drive or your 2nd iron. Can you drop your 9 iron shot near the pin? Can you drop your drive near the pin?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So I am struggling to break 100 and I am planning how to play each hold on a favorite course this 4th of July where I want to desparately break 100, every shot will count. http://www.rookerygolf.com/layout.html the par 4 300 yd 4th hole presents and interesting dilemma. There is a big pond with your standard RISK/REWARD. layup at 150, then have a 9-iron to the green, OR you can pull out your driver and try and make it the 225+ yds over the pond. On a good drive, I can get 250 yds almost all in the air (high trajectory), with a slice often (but that doesn’t hurt on this hole). I would say I am at least 50% of the time going to get it that far…especially if I am driving it well. However, my golfing buddy Brian Trdina who used to be a scratch golfer before he went to jail on possession charges (that’s another story), tells me that at my level I should probably hit two 9-irons laying up and then easily clearing the pond. I disagree since I think that this isn’t that much smarter of a play…i could always skull the ball into the pond or screw up my tee shot and be really screwed. Thanks, -A
Play it as you see it on the day. If you have been driving well then go for it – tee it up a bit higher and swing smoothly right through to a full finish; don’t snatch at the short or gor for extra distance. However the safest is probably to layup to a full 2nd shot – preferably your favourite club (PW, 9, 8 or even 7). I would hit a full 9 iron for my 2nd shot. The worst thing to do is to choose an option where you have doubts. For instance you could go with driver and easily clear the water but leave yourself an awkward distance away – it’s usually better to leave a full shot than a half shot. — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So I am struggling to break 100 and I am planning how to play each hold on a favorite course this 4th of July where I want to desparately break 100, every shot will count. http://www.rookerygolf.com/layout.html the par 4 300 yd 4th hole presents and interesting dilemma. There is a big pond with your standard RISK/REWARD. layup at 150, then have a 9-iron to the green, OR you can pull out your driver and try and make it the 225+ yds over the pond. On a good drive, I can get 250 yds almost all in the air (high trajectory), with a slice often (but that doesn’t hurt on this hole). I would say I am at least 50% of the time going to get it that far…especially if I am driving it well. However, my golfing buddy Brian Trdina who used to be a scratch golfer before he went to jail on possession charges (that’s another story), tells me that at my level I should probably hit two 9-irons laying up and then easily clearing the pond. I disagree since I think that this isn’t that much smarter of a play…i could always skull the ball into the pond or screw up my tee shot and be really screwed.
Ask yourself how many times in 10 attempts are you going to carry the pond hitting a driver off the tee and how many times in 10 attempts are you going to skull the ball into the pond. The 2 answers should really tell which strategy to adopt if you want to score on this particular hole. Crispin Roche
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So I am struggling to break 100 and I am planning how to play each hold on a favorite course this 4th of July where I want to desparately break 100, every shot will count. http://www.rookerygolf.com/layout.html the par 4 300 yd 4th hole presents and interesting dilemma. There is a big pond with your standard RISK/REWARD. layup at 150, then have a 9-iron to the green, OR you can pull out your driver and try and make it the 225+ yds over the pond. On a good drive, I can get 250 yds almost all in the air (high trajectory), with a slice often (but that doesn’t hurt on this hole). I would say I am at least 50% of the time going to get it that far…especially if I am driving it well. However, my golfing buddy Brian Trdina who used to be a scratch golfer before he went to jail on possession charges (that’s another story), tells me that at my level I should probably hit two 9-irons laying up and then easily clearing the pond. I disagree since I think that this isn’t that much smarter of a play…i could always skull the ball into the pond or screw up my tee shot and be really screwed. Thanks, -A
Here is a scenario I would not wish on you but it happens You bogeyed holes 1 2 & 3 and you get to the fourth. You are on pace to break 100, and feeling good, you whip out the driver. Oh gosh duffed it 30 yards off the tee in some light rough. You now have mucho yards to carry the pond on the second shot so you wisely lay up. Still pissed off with your tee shot, you hit your 9 iron into the pond. You drop and now are hitting 5 and you are still not over the pond…and now you know the rest of the story Play the percentages like the other posters suggest. Good luck. W
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So I am struggling to break 100 and I am planning how to play each hold on a favorite course this 4th of July where I want to desparately break 100, every shot will count. http://www.rookerygolf.com/layout.html the par 4 300 yd 4th hole presents and interesting dilemma. There is a big pond with your standard RISK/REWARD. layup at 150, then have a 9-iron to the green, OR you can pull out your driver and try and make it the 225+ yds over the pond. On a good drive, I can get 250 yds almost all in the air (high trajectory), with a slice often (but that doesn’t hurt on this hole). I would say I am at least 50% of the time going to get it that far…especially if I am driving it well. However, my golfing buddy Brian Trdina who used to be a scratch golfer before he went to jail on possession charges (that’s another story), tells me that at my level I should probably hit two 9-irons laying up and then easily clearing the pond. I disagree since I think that this isn’t that much smarter of a play…i could always skull the ball into the pond or screw up my tee shot and be really screwed. Thanks, -A
If you are asking this question, you should be laying up. Only go for it if you have 90% confidence of making the shot. Unless you don’t care about the score – then hell, yes, go for it man!!!
This isn’t basketball. Lay up in basketball, go for it in golf. Protecting a score never ever works out.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So I am struggling to break 100 and I am planning how to play each hold on a favorite course this 4th of July where I want to desparately break 100, every shot will count. Snip<
worthy to grace rec.sport.golf with his/her presence, and uttered…..: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -So I am struggling to break 100 and I am planning how to play each hold on a favorite course this 4th of July where I want to desparately break 100, every shot will count. http://www.rookerygolf.com/layout.html the par 4 300 yd 4th hole presents and interesting dilemma. There is a big pond with your standard RISK/REWARD. layup at 150, then have a 9-iron to the green, OR you can pull out your driver and try and make it the 225+ yds over the pond. On a good drive, I can get 250 yds almost all in the air (high trajectory), with a slice often (but that doesn’t hurt on this hole). I would say I am at least 50% of the time going to get it that far…especially if I am driving it well. However, my golfing buddy Brian Trdina who used to be a scratch golfer before he went to jail on possession charges (that’s another story), tells me that at my level I should probably hit two 9-irons laying up and then easily clearing the pond. I disagree since I think that this isn’t that much smarter of a play…i could always skull the ball into the pond or screw up my tee shot and be really screwed. Thanks, -A
how often do you carry 225? what’s the wind doing? The fact that you’re asking this tells me you should be laying up.. but then, golf has never been a particularly logical game. Which also might explain why I’m working in the computer network architecture field, rather than the green golf field. — Mad’Doug Trentham Camp GC, New Zealand RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=stokesd Please remove the apostrophe (‘) to email me
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So I am struggling to break 100 and I am planning how to play each hold on a favorite course this 4th of July where I want to desparately break 100, every shot will count. http://www.rookerygolf.com/layout.html the par 4 300 yd 4th hole presents and interesting dilemma. There is a big pond with your standard RISK/REWARD. layup at 150, then have a 9-iron to the green, OR you can pull out your driver and try and make it the 225+ yds over the pond. On a good drive, I can get 250 yds almost all in the air (high trajectory), with a slice often (but that doesn’t hurt on this hole). I would say I am at least 50% of the time going to get it that far…especially if I am driving it well. However, my golfing buddy Brian Trdina who used to be a scratch golfer before he went to jail on possession charges (that’s another story), tells me that at my level I should probably hit two 9-irons laying up and then easily clearing the pond. I disagree since I think that this isn’t that much smarter of a play…i could always skull the ball into the pond or screw up my tee shot and be really screwed. Thanks, -A
Breaking 100 – I heard it explained this way a long time ago…. -You can bogey every hole and break 100. -You can double bogey 8 holes, bogey the rest, and break 100. -You can triple bogey 3 holes, double bogey 3 holes, bogey the rest, and you still break 100. -Most high handicapers can shoot the same score carrying just 7 clubs opposed to a full set. The point is, people have to ability to break 100, but make bad decisions along the way. I wouldn’t worry so much about "planning" what you are going to do ahead of time. Laying up isn’t a bad option, it’s probably the smart play and you still have a good chance for par. If you disagree with the advice already offered, then swing away (which is what you probably will do). No need to have doubts and be so focused on the "what if" negatives. You gotta cross the water one way or another.
Seems like a no-brainer to me … 2 150yd shots or a 225+ carry over water … unless you’re long enough that you’re *sure* you can carry it, then layup and hit the short/mid iron to the green. You *know* you can hit 2 shots of 150yds (although you don’t know if you *will*) … do you *know* that you can carry 225+ yds? I’m quite sure I couldn’t, but I’m not a big hitter. Rob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So I am struggling to break 100 and I am planning how to play each hold on a favorite course this 4th of July where I want to desparately break 100, every shot will count. http://www.rookerygolf.com/layout.html the par 4 300 yd 4th hole presents and interesting dilemma. There is a big pond with your standard RISK/REWARD. layup at 150, then have a 9-iron to the green, OR you can pull out your driver and try and make it the 225+ yds over the pond. On a good drive, I can get 250 yds almost all in the air (high trajectory), with a slice often (but that doesn’t hurt on this hole). I would say I am at least 50% of the time going to get it that far…especially if I am driving it well. However, my golfing buddy Brian Trdina who used to be a scratch golfer before he went to jail on possession charges (that’s another story), tells me that at my level I should probably hit two 9-irons laying up and then easily clearing the pond. I disagree since I think that this isn’t that much smarter of a play…i could always skull the ball into the pond or screw up my tee shot and be really screwed. Thanks, -A
Never broken 100 yet his drives *carry* 250 yards. Don’t you just love rsg? 8-)
Never broken 100 yet his drives *carry* 250 yards. Don’t you just love rsg? 8-)
I guess the obvious question is how many times out of 10 does he carry 250 yards, and how often does his drive go straight where he meant it? FWIW, my last four gross rounds have been 75, 76, 79 and 76, and there’s no way I can consistently *carry* a drive 250 yards. I can occasionally drive 250 yards (or a tad more), but a 225 yard carry would be far too much risk for me. So if I was playing the hole I’d definitely be laying up for a good full iron in. — Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=wilsonc Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com
Never broken 100 yet his drives *carry* 250 yards. Don’t you just love rsg? 8-)
That’s can’t be his driver, it has to be his SW. Otherwise he has no biz in this group! — bill-o Host of RSG-StL July 11-13, 2003 http://www.geocities.com/billo39206/
So I am struggling to break 100 and I am planning how to play each hold on a favorite course this 4th of July where I want to desparately break 100, every shot will count. http://www.rookerygolf.com/layout.html the par 4 300 yd 4th hole presents and interesting dilemma.
Okay, so you carry the pond and leave yourself a 50 yard partial wedge shot. How good are you with one of those? For me, 2 9 irons (well, 2 7 irons at that distance) would be a better alternative. There’s a hole like this on my home course, a 360 yarder with a creek across the middle that requires laying up to about 200 yards out or trying to carry one at least 210 off the tee. Sure, I can hit it that far, but the odds are pretty good of a mishit of some sort that at best will leave me in deep rough. — http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery )
Seems like a no-brainer to me … 2 150yd shots or a 225+ carry over water … unless you’re long enough that you’re *sure* you can carry it, then layup and hit the short/mid iron to the green. You *know* you can hit 2 shots of 150yds (although you don’t know if you *will*) … do you *know* that you can carry 225+ yds?
Can? But of course… might even be on/near the green. Will? Well… um… not every time.
Seems like a no-brainer to me … 2 150yd shots or a 225+ carry over water … unless you’re long enough that you’re *sure* you can carry it, then layup and hit the short/mid iron to the green. You *know* you can hit 2 shots of 150yds (although you don’t know if you *will*) … do you *know* that you can carry 225+ yds? I’m quite sure I couldn’t, but I’m not a big hitter.
A high handicap player who can carry the water probably doesn’t hit the green. Which means he’s two shots away with either strategy – unless he misses.
Never broken 100 yet his drives *carry* 250 yards. Don’t you just love rsg? 8-)
I’ve played with people like that. And even I have had a couple of drives that long (there’s a big difference though in 1% and 50% though)
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So I am struggling to break 100 and I am planning how to play each hold on a favorite course this 4th of July where I want to desparately break 100, every shot will count. http://www.rookerygolf.com/layout.html the par 4 300 yd 4th hole presents and interesting dilemma. There is a big pond with your standard RISK/REWARD. layup at 150, then have a 9-iron to the green, OR you can pull out your driver and try and make it the 225+ yds over the pond. On a good drive, I can get 250 yds almost all in the air (high trajectory), with a slice often (but that doesn’t hurt on this hole). I would say I am at least 50% of the time going to get it that far…especially if I am driving it well.
No offense, but I doubt you’re at the 50% mark if you’re struggling to break 100. More like 10%. Almost everybody overestimates their abilities. Play smart and hit an iron off the tee. However, my golfing buddy Brian Trdina who used to be a scratch golfer before he went to jail on possession charges (that’s another story), tells me that at my level I should probably hit two 9-irons laying up and then easily clearing the pond. I disagree since I think that this isn’t that much smarter of a play…i could always skull the ball into the pond or screw up my tee shot and be really screwed.
That’s true, but you’re MUCH more likely to hit a bad driver than a bad 9 iron, or even two bad 9 irons. Your thought process on this doesn’t add up: If you think you’re successful 50% of the time with the driver, don’t you think you’d be successfully a heck of a lot more (90-95%) of the time with a 9 iron? Even if you’re at 80% with the 9-iron, two of those (80% of 80%=64%) is still better than your 50% estimate with the driver.
No offense, but I doubt you’re at the 50% mark if you’re struggling to break 100. More like 10%. Almost everybody overestimates their abilities. Play smart and hit an iron off the tee.
Of course, his estimate was that he could hit it far enough 50% of the time. He didn’t say that those hits would be straight. For us high handicap players the combination of far and straight is much lower than one or the other.
Never broken 100 yet his drives *carry* 250 yards. Don’t you just love rsg? 8-)
This isn’t totally on-topic with what you’re saying, but… when I hit my driver well(not often) I’m hitting it approx. 230.. (that’s carry and roll). Just last Friday, playing a new course to me, I ended up going around with a young guy that just came out of his shoes off the tee. I hit a couple really nice drives, at least in the 220-230 range. He was out "driving" me with a 4iron. Yet, from that point on, he basically couldn’t get anything done.
Get out the sag balls and blast away.Phil
Seems like a no-brainer to me … 2 150yd shots or a 225+ carry over water … unless you’re long enough that you’re *sure* you can carry it, then layup and hit the short/mid iron to the green. You *know* you can hit 2 shots of 150yds (although you don’t know if you *will*) … do you *know* that you can carry 225+ yds? I’m quite sure I couldn’t, but I’m not a big hitter. A high handicap player who can carry the water probably doesn’t hit the green. Which means he’s two shots away with either strategy – unless he misses.
As a high handicapper, who knows exactly how this hole goes, ’cause I’ve done it both ways, this is how it goes. First time he plays it. He tees off with the driver, puts it in the water. Walks up to the water, drops, hits over to the green. Second time. Learns his lesson. Hits it to the edge of the water. Duffs the second shot into the water. Puts third shot on green. Third time. Takes driver back out. clears water, into trap on left. Takes 2 strokes to get out of trap. Fourth time. Takes out iron, duffs tee shot, still 200 from green. Takes out 3 iron, put it’s in the water. Goes to water’s edge, hits it to green. Fifth time. Takes out iron, puts it just short of water. Takes out a bit of extra club (in case he duffs it) clears water, green, and OB stakes on back side. Sixth time. Takes out driver. Duffs tee shot, is still 200 from green. Decides to take out 9 iron, gets all of it and ends up rolling into water. 7th time. Takes out driver. Clears water, rolls just short of green. Has to chip over trap, puts it in trap, takes 2 strokes to get out of trap. 8th time. Takes out driver, clears water, rolls up ON green. 4 putts.