Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A metal covered trailer is a "gaussian sphere". When inside, you are immune to electrical potentials outside vehicle. Tires have nothing to do with it. If lightning has high enough potential to arc seveal thousand feet, nothing is going to keep it from arcing another 6" from axle to ground. Of course a true "gaussian sphere" is completely enclosed, windows in an RV offer a possiblity of lightning getting in. I see. So the "gaussian sphere" is the basis for the term to degauss? Like in the old days when you had to have your color tv demagnetized/degaussed whenenver it was moved around? Is that the same sort of phenomenom? Danny
"Gauss’s Law" refers to electrical field applied to a closed surface (sphere). Simply stated, "the sum of all charges inside the gaussian surface is zero." Meaning if you are in a metal container that gets hit by lightning, you’ll be okay. "Gauss’s Law for Magnetism" refers to magnetic fields. Book states,"if magnetic flux enters a volume, it must emerge from that volume." This one is what you are referring to concerning the degaussing ring found on every TV surrounding the picture tube. Don’t remember this stuff, but still have Physics 101 book to help out.
Response:
writes: A point, trees have liquid sap, and dried hardwood blocks do not. Of course if it’s raining and the blocks are wet they would do no good at all, assuming they to any good. Dried wood is a good insulator. The problem is that with the voltage and amperage lightning possesses, it can jump several inches. It probably would see the blocks as a capacitor.
A lot of truth here, but lighting, virtually by definition, can jump a LOT more than several inches. Can you say thousands of feet? Anytime there is a discussion about lightning, it is good to keep in mind that such enermous energy is involved in a healthy strike that we are well advised not to assume any place above ground is really "safe". While it is so rare as be be astonishing, people HAVE been killed inside barns and other buildings. But you can minimimize your risks by being inside a vehicle. . . only a fool would stand outside on a knoll shaking your fist at God!! Will KD3XR
Response:
Having never been struck by lightning I am probably overstepping my boundries here but would suggest the following. Trees that are hit by lightning often do not fair very well. I dont think the wood blocks under your jacks are going to make a great differance. I was surprised to see the post on the steel belted tires blowing out. Makes you wonder about the nails in your boots! Faradays cage or not, if that lightning jolt decides the path of least resistance is from your TV antenna thru the cable and into your AC wiring system the smoke is gonna leak out of your RV.
Mike, you touched on a little known principle here. Manufacturers put smoke into stuff and when it leaks out, the stuff doesn’t work anymore. Like TV sets, they put smoke in the capacitors and resistors and stuff. When the smoke poofs out, no more workee. I would suspect it is much safer inside the RV rather than standing on top waving a graphite fishing rod around. Best Mike N
It’s like the light bulb conspiracy. all these years we’ve been erroneously lead to believe that they put out light. The’re actually darksuckers. Proof? A burned out light bulb is dark colored. When they get too much dark in them they quit. A good place to get acquainted with lightning is working for an electric utility company. I’ve got some horror stories. Bob KU8C
Response:
I was once told that in case of extreme lightening, go get your #2 iron from your golf bag. Stand in the open, waving it above your head. Even God can’t hit a 2 iron!!! Myron – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is it safe to be in a 5W or TT when there is lightning? Would it matter if the trailer was conductive (metal) or non-conductive (rubber, vinyl or fiberglass)? tia, Michael
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Trees that are hit by lightning often do not fair very well. I dont think the wood blocks under your jacks are going to make a great differance. A point, trees have liquid sap, and dried hardwood blocks do not. Of course if it’s raining and the blocks are wet they would do no good at all, assuming they to any good. Dried wood is a good insulator. The problem is that with the voltage and amperage lightning possesses, it can jump several inches. It probably would see the blocks as a capacitor. cheers bob
Two things- Mike Niemela actually wrote that (I was quoting him), and, if the blocks might act as a capacitor- would a person discharge that capacitor by stepping out of the trailer (?!) youch! — Chris Bryant Bryant R.V.
Response:
Trees that are hit by lightning often do not fair very well. I dont think the wood blocks under your jacks are going to make a great differance.
A point, trees have liquid sap, and dried hardwood blocks do not. Of course if it’s raining and the blocks are wet they would do no good at all, assuming they to any good. Dried wood is a good insulator. The problem is that with the voltage and amperage lightning possesses, it can jump several inches. It probably would see the blocks as a capacitor. cheers bob
Response:
I spent 4 summers living in a "Faraday cage" which is what a US Forest Service Fire Lookout is. And the lookout got hit by lightning several times while I was in it. Click on the following for a description of being inside a lightning storm: <http://www.aloha.net/~bgraham/bear-lo3.html#Lightning Storm on the Lookout It sure left an indelible impression in my mind, even after 50+ years. Aloha – bob ooo_ Shell material does matter. Commercial airplanes (aluminum skin) get hit by lightning quite often, usually without significant damage. For an RV the answer is more complicated than shell material. The structure of some is metal and the frame of most (all I hope) is metal. A metal cage is called a "Faraday cage" and the electric field inside will usually be zero. Wires into the cage can conduct lightning. The voltages and currents in a strike are very large and will jump from a RV to ground easily. In general, most 5Ws should be safer (IMHO). roger
– http://www.aloha.net/~bgraham
Response:
Michael, For a short answer: YES, it’s safe, and YES it does matter Yes, it’s safe: It’s the "faraday’s cage" and a lightning wouldn’t harm you. Yes, it does matter: The best is of couse a full conductive structure (like an airstream or the like), but the usual style are either aluminium planks or a steel skeleton, both working quite well. (The planks may have no conducting connection, but the lightning jumps easily over this gaps) Of course the tires can blow up and catch fire, or the wood under your jacks can burst, but to say it very rude, YOU LIVE and have a second chance! So, my opinion, stay inside your TT/MH/5W, make yourself comfortable, and watch the lightning….. Roland Michael Binder schrieb in Nachricht … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Is it safe to be in a 5W or TT when there is lightning? Would it matter if the trailer was conductive (metal) or non-conductive (rubber, vinyl or fiberglass)? tia, Michael
Response:
Having never been struck by lightning I am probably overstepping my boundries here but would suggest the following. Trees that are hit by lightning often do not fair very well. I dont think the wood blocks under your jacks are going to make a great differance. I was surprised to see the post on the steel belted tires blowing out. Makes you wonder about the nails in your boots! Faradays cage or not, if that lightning jolt decides the path of least resistance is from your TV antenna thru the cable and into your AC wiring system the smoke is gonna leak out of your RV. I would suspect it is much safer inside the RV rather than standing on top waving a graphite fishing rod around. Best Mike N
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Having never been struck by lightning I am probably overstepping my boundries here but would suggest the following. Trees that are hit by lightning often do not fair very well. I dont think the wood blocks under your jacks are going to make a great differance. I was surprised to see the post on the steel belted tires blowing out. Makes you wonder about the nails in your boots! Faradays cage or not, if that lightning jolt decides the path of least resistance is from your TV antenna thru the cable and into your AC wiring system the smoke is gonna leak out of your RV. I would suspect it is much safer inside the RV rather than standing on top waving a graphite fishing rod around. Best Mike N
I just remembered a customer of mine that *was* in his trailer when it was struck by lightning. It was an Airstream. I didn’t see the trailer until it was (badly) repaired- apparently, one whole side was melted/blown off. It moved the trailer sideways a couple of inches, and kind of racked the frame. He was O.K. (He was lying on the couch at the time- reading the Bible!). FWIW — Chris Bryant Bryant R.V.
Response:
Shell material does matter. Commercial airplanes (aluminum skin) get hit by lightning quite often, usually without significant damage. For an RV the answer is more complicated than shell material. The structure of some is metal and the frame of most (all I hope) is metal. A metal cage is called a "Faraday cage" and the electric field inside will usually be zero. Wires into the cage can conduct lightning. The voltages and currents in a strike are very large and will jump from a RV to ground easily. In general, most 5Ws should be safer (IMHO). roger – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is it safe to be in a 5W or TT when there is lightning? Would it matter if the trailer was conductive (metal) or non-conductive (rubber, vinyl or fiberglass)? tia, Michael Same problems as being in a car. Shell material does not matter, both are sitting on rubber tires. Erich This was true in the old days when tires were all rubber, But now a days, the tires have metal belts in them which do conduct! Just last year a car got hit by lightning near my house and the tires blew out (while it was going down the highway) This caused quite an accident! The State Police looked into the cause and "yes, the car was hit by lightning, which caused the tires to fry" Will Rosenberry
Response:
Is it safe to be in a 5W or TT when there is lightning? Would it matter if the trailer was conductive (metal) or non-conductive (rubber, vinyl or fiberglass)? tia, Michael
Response:
Is it safe to be in a 5W or TT when there is lightning? Would it matter if the trailer was conductive (metal) or non-conductive (rubber, vinyl or fiberglass)? tia, Michael
Same problems as being in a car. Shell material does not matter, both are sitting on rubber tires. Erich
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is it safe to be in a 5W or TT when there is lightning? Would it matter if the trailer was conductive (metal) or non-conductive (rubber, vinyl or fiberglass)? tia, Michael Same problems as being in a car. Shell material does not matter, both are sitting on rubber tires. Erich
Do the metal jacks on the fifth wheel have any consequence? Janet Wilder, The "Road Princess" Full-timing through North America E-mail: delete noQspam
Response:
Technically, the electric field inside a metal box is zero, so you might be protected inside a metal-sheathed RV, grounded or not. Beyond that, I have no idea. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Same problems as being in a car. Shell material does not matter, both are sitting on rubber tires. Erich
Response:
Is it safe to be in a 5W or TT when there is lightning? Would it matter if the trailer was conductive (metal) or non-conductive (rubber, vinyl or fiberglass)?
Since some people here seem to think that opinions don’t count and we need to hear 1st-hand information only, how about some input from those of you out there that have actually been hit by lightning? <g,d&r ;-)
Response:
Is it safe to be in a 5W or TT when there is lightning? Would it matter if the trailer was conductive (metal) or non-conductive (rubber, vinyl or fiberglass)?
Sez Erich: Same problems as being in a car. Shell material does not matter, both are sitting on rubber tires.
Someone else pointed out (correctly) that the insulating value of the tires is not an important issue in this regard. Though I have not yet been hit by actual lightning (Steve Wolf, the Whizzer from OZ and Heckler Osborne notwithstanding – hehehehe) and therefore must rely on conventional engineering principles, I can assure you that: 1) Being inside a metal or conductive ‘cage’ is about as safe a place as you can be in an electrical storm, because it is improbable you’ll personally get hit. The ‘cage’ effect tends to route discharges around you. 2) If you actually suffer a major direct hit it will not make a LOT of difference where you are, what you are in, or whether the jacks are down! The energy in a lightning bolt is so huge that SOMETHING is going to give. There will be a lot of thoretical arguments pro & con but I think you are safer inside a metal ‘tin can’ like an airstream. But as noted above, all bets are off if you get a direct shot. You can best avoid that by not parking high on an exposed knoll in a storm. Will KD3XR
Response:
slick willie attacked by saying: Someone else pointed out (correctly) that the insulating value of the tires is not an important issue in this regard. Though I have not yet been hit by actual lightning (Steve Wolf, the Whizzer from OZ and Heckler Osborne notwithstanding – hehehehe) and therefore must rely on
You might watch for the post from Will Rosenbury. Steve
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is it safe to be in a 5W or TT when there is lightning? Would it matter if the trailer was conductive (metal) or non-conductive (rubber, vinyl or fiberglass)? tia, Michael Same problems as being in a car. Shell material does not matter, both are sitting on rubber tires. Erich Do the metal jacks on the fifth wheel have any consequence?
I always put wooden blocks under the jacks. Don’t know if it makes it less likely to be hit by lightning or not – and I hope I never find out! http://homepages.infoseek.com/~tomjanis/ http://homepages.infoseek.com/~aviontravelcade/
Response:
Is it safe to be in a 5W or TT when there is lightning? Would it matter if the trailer was conductive (metal) or non-conductive (rubber, vinyl or fiberglass)? tia, Michael Same problems as being in a car. Shell material does not matter, both are sitting on rubber tires. Erich
This was true in the old days when tires were all rubber, But now a days, the tires have metal belts in them which do conduct! Just last year a car got hit by lightning near my house and the tires blew out (while it was going down the highway) This caused quite an accident! The State Police looked into the cause and "yes, the car was hit by lightning, which caused the tires to fry" Will Rosenberry
Response:
Heckler Osborne
Two things to note here: First, If he’s going to use my name, he should spell it correctly — it has no "e"! Second, If he MUST give me a title, it should be an accurate one. I don’t HECKLE him; I simply CORRECT his errors. (Now I even have to correct his spelling!) So, if he cannot simply call me by my preferred name, David, he should at least start calling me "Corrector Osborn"! 73, David, N8DO; FMCA 147762 The correct address is djosborn at aol dot com
Response:
Is it safe to be in a 5W or TT when there is lightning? Would it matter if the trailer was conductive (metal) or non-conductive (rubber, vinyl or fiberglass)? Since some people here seem to think that opinions don’t count and we need to hear 1st-hand information only, how about some input from those of you out there that have actually been hit by lightning? <g,d&r ;-)
errr … imagine the survival rate would limit the number of responses on this one. A metal covered trailer is a "gaussian sphere". When inside, you are immune to electrical potentials outside vehicle. Tires have nothing to do with it. If lightning has high enough potential to arc seveal thousand feet, nothing is going to keep it from arcing another 6" from axle to ground. Of course a true "gaussian sphere" is completely enclosed, windows in an RV offer a possiblity of lightning getting in.
Response:
A metal covered trailer is a "gaussian sphere". When inside, you are immune to electrical potentials outside vehicle. Tires have nothing to do with it. If lightning has high enough potential to arc seveal thousand feet, nothing is going to keep it from arcing another 6" from axle to ground. Of course a true "gaussian sphere" is completely enclosed, windows in an RV offer a possiblity of lightning getting in.
I see. So the "gaussian sphere" is the basis for the term to degauss? Like in the old days when you had to have your color tv demagnetized/degaussed whenenver it was moved around? Is that the same sort of phenomenom? Danny