Question:
I know this is an old one but I just read it last night and had a laugh over it. Ethics Question; What do you do when your opponent says he’s found his ball in the rough and you know hes lying because you have it in your pocket! Brett
If you want to see it acted out, rent the first James Bond film, Goldfinger. James is standing on Goldfinger’s Slazinger ball!
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I know this is an old one but I just read it last night and had a laugh over it. Ethics Question; What do you do when your opponent says he’s found his ball in the rough and you know hes lying because you have it in your pocket!
The only honorable thing is to assess yourself a two-shot penalty! 8^) Two wrongs do not make a right.
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Ethics Question; What do you do when your opponent says he’s found his ball in the rough and you know hes lying because you have it in your pocket!
No matter what you do, you should give yourself a penalty. If you tell him, you are guilty of moving a ball in play, and if you say nothing, by your silence you are guilty of agreeing to break the rules. (sorry I don’t have the exact rule number, but my rule book is in my golf bag in the back of my car).
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Your opponent is mistaken.
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I know this is an old one but I just read it last night and had a laugh over it. Ethics Question; What do you do when your opponent says he’s found his ball in the rough and you know hes lying because you have it in your pocket! Brett
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I know this is an old one but I just read it last night and had a laugh over it. Ethics Question; What do you do when your opponent says he’s found his ball in the rough and you know hes lying because you have it in your pocket! Brett If you have no honest reason for having his ball in your pocket while he is looking for it , then IMO, you are as dishonest or worse than him and you deserve each other and I hope you only play golf together, so as not to spread your disease.
130 Hopewell Ave Riverview, NB E1B 1T5, Canada
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If all groups waved up the group behind on par 3’s the average time to play the par 3’s would decrease and the average time for the hole round would decrease. You won’t really be helped (for the hole round) if only the group just ahead of you waves you up, but if that group was waved up they would have finished the hole earlier wich means you will finish it earlier wich means the group behind you will finish it earlier wich means the group behind them will… and so on. You often hear statements like "It does not matter if we let the group behind tee off because they will have to wait on the next tee anyway". It is true, but what you gain is that more things can be done simultanously on the course and that will mean that the average time to complete a round will go down.
Help! Anyone else see the fallacy her? This model just doesn’t hold water. It breaks down with the very first group of the day. Certainly you would agree that the fastest way for the first group of the day to finish their round is for them NOT to wave up the group behind them on par 3s. This would only slow them down. So if you are in the second group of the day and you realize that, if you can keep pace, you will finish your round immediately after the first group, do you want them to wave you up on the par 3s? Doing so would only cause the first group, and therefore the second group, to finish the round later. And if you are in the third group of the day, do you want the second group to wave you up? Doing so will only increase the chance that they will lose pace with the first group. Is that what you want? If this strategy doesn’t pay off with the first, second, or third group of the day, exactly when does it start to pay off? When you get waved up on on par 3, you are fooling yourself if you think you are saving time. What actually is happening is that you are getting right on top of the group in front of you, so that you are walking up to the green while they are still putting. But you can’t stay this close off the next tee, because you will have to wait until they are 250+ away down the next fairway before you can tee off. This involves waiting. You can bunch up on the par 3s, but you have to spread out again on the par 4s and 5s. There is no way to beat it. Kevin
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GJSorry, Kevin, but that is simply not true. Once each group reaches GJthe green, it is true that you take a little longer because you let GJthe group behind hit. And of course, you will still finish in the GJsame order if no one plays through. However, the big savings are in GJthe time everyone waits on the tee. Think about it, in your GJscenario, every group waits on the tee for the group ahead to GJtee-off, walk the fairway and putt out. Then the process begins GJagain. With calling groups to hit, you have: one group putting, one GJgroup walking the fairway, and another group te’ed up and prepared to GJhit when they get the wave. Sorry, Gary. I just don’t buy it. If the course is crowded, all you have accomplished is splitting the wait into two segments – waiting on the tee and waiting at the green. In theory, if everyone waves the following group up, the only time saved is the time spent traveling from tee to green while the group ahead begins putting. Since I generally only encounter slow conditions on weekends, when the local course forces us to take a cart, I figure this is at most one minute. If my reward for that is that I have to wait at the next tee anyway, it isn’t worth it. Besides, I find it distracting to hit to a green surrounded by waiting golfers, and I think it’s dangerous. It’s often hard to see the ball coming at the green. I’ve seen more close calls at par threes than as a result of result of rude golfers hitting into the group ahead. And please don’t tell me the group waiting to putt should stand far from the green – that just eats up more time. GJIt certainly makes sense to me and thousands of golf courses strictly GJenforce this rule with marshals sduring slow play. I don’t think GJthey are all wrong. I probably play 20 different public courses per year, and none of them "strictly enforces" this rule. In fact, the vast majority don’t even suggest it (probably for liability reasons). In fact, in 20 years of playing golf at public courses, usually on crowded weekends, I’ve never seen a marshal enforce this rule. I can only remember two instances in which a course posted a sign at the tee reading "Please wave up the following group". But even if "thousands of golf courses strictly enforce this rule", it wouldn’t particularly surprise me that they are all wrong. "The least thing upset him on the links. He missed short putts because of the uproar of butterflies in the adjoining meadows." P.G. Wodehouse
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You can bunch up on the par 3s, but you have to spread out again on the par 4s and 5s. There is no way to beat it.
This is so simple. How come so many people don’t understand this? Jeff Rogers Fins Up! http://www.mindspring.com/~jwrogers/ Indecision is the key to flexibility.
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| (Terry M. Lowe) writes: | | Waving a group up on a long par 3 would allow for balancing | the wait between shots and keep the pace moving at an even | rate. If the group ahead waves you on, then putts out while | you approach your tee shots, you will basically maintain the | same pace and separation as on the other holes. The principle | is a lot like a pipeline operation. You may degrade performance | for an individual operation (the group putting out) but you | maximize performance for the whole process (everyone’s round). | | | Terry, how does this "maximize" the pace of play ? Oops, I meant maximize throughput…yeah, that’s it. 
Obviously I should have said minimize (never post without sufficient amounts of caffeine). | To consider a simple example, consider a day when all foursomes on | the course are moving at the same pace. The first group of the day | waits on a par three green to allow the following group to hit up. | (I don’t know about you, but I’m not going to line up a putt while | there are incoming balls !). There is no benefit to this first group to | doing so … only a slowdown of 5 minutes or so to wait for the trailing | group to hit. Instead of finishing in 4 hours, the first group finishes in | 4 hours and 5 minutes. [remainder snipped] Long winded append to follow so skip it now, or get comfortable. The problem is that you are only looking at the time it takes to putt out, you’re not looking at the amount of time it takes tee to green as well. Most groups are going to play a long par 3 as a par 4 so you have to factor in approach/pitch shots in addition to the time it takes to putt out. Consider your scenario with all foursomes playing at the same pace. For simplicity, let’s assume that this pace is 5 minutes per shot. So it takes 5 minutes for a tee shot, 5 for approach and 5 to putt out, so a par 4 will take 15 minutes to play. For simplicity, we’ll say the groups are spaced at these 5 minute intervals. Now you come to our par 3 and it is in the long par 3 catgory. As I said, most groups are going to play this like a par 4. They are going to miss the green have to hit approach shots and then putt out. So, here comes our first group and they play the par 3 like the typical group (a par 4) so with the 5 minute intervals, the second group is coming up to the tee while the first group is preparing to hit/hitting their pitch shots on to the green. Now the second group is waiting 10 minutes to hit the tee shots (5 minutes approach and 5 minutes putting). After they wait on the tee for 5 minutes, the third group comes up and joins the second waiting. After 5 more minutes the second group tees off and the fourth group joins the third on the tee. Assuming the second also plays this like a par 4, the fifth group will join the third and fourth on the tee while the second group hits their approach shots, and so on. Let’s see how this adds up: 1st group – 4 hr, 30 min. round (assuming 15 min/hole) 2nd group – 4 hr, 40 min. (15 min/hole + 10 minute wait) 3rd group – 4 hr, 50 min. 4th group – 5 hr etc. The only group that makes out OK from not waving up is the first group of the day. Everyone else has to wait, and the waiting time builds. Granted, my example is a worst case scenario (delay continues to increase). In reality the waiting time reaches a limit. This time would depend on the difficulty of the preceding and following holes which can affect the spacing of groups. At my course the waiting time on the tee of the first par 3 is approximately 20-25 minutes on the weekend. Waving people up maintains a steady pace of play. While the savings may vary, they will exist because I would guarantee that the typical foursome takes longer to play a long par 3 then they do to play any segment of a par 4 or par 5 (which would be the typical measure of group separation). That extra amount of time invites a logjam as subseuent typical foursomes come upon the par 3. They have to wait an extra amount of time for the group in front of them before they take an extra amount of time to play the hole. The delay builds and gets handed down from group to group. Terry
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The practice of "calling up" on a par 3 hole most certainly evens out the pace of play and speeds up the pace of play. How? First, the amount of wait time on the tee is reduced. I do not have to wait for them to putt out. I am walking to my ball while they are putting out. By reducing my wait time on the tee, they are evening out my pace of play. Second, while they are putting, we are moving towards the green instead of waiting on the tee for them to finish, thereby speeding up play. If every group were to do this, you would see less wait time on the tee and faster pace of play…. Robert Sileo Senior Programmer/Analyst Marywood College
And the result is that you are now "closer" to the group ahead than you were before. So you get to wait longer on the next tee. What have you gained ? If this really made sense, it should be done for every approach, not just par 3s. But it doesn’t make sense, it just creates the illusion of playing faster. Regards, Tom D.
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PLEASE!…STOP WAVING UP ON PAR THREES, putt out and get going, that is what speeds up play. I can’t find the exact article in my golf magazine (I have over 300), but it dealt with slow play and this practice. They were doing a study to see if waving up on par threes would speed up play. The conclusion was that it did not. At executive par three courses it was a disaster, adding an hour to a 3 1/2 hour round. Moreover, the practice is dangerous to the group doing the waving. I have seen a person looking into the sun get bonked by a ball because the group on the tee thought the wavers could see it, and so they didn’t yell ‘fore’. I Marshal our course and frequently have to stop people from waving. Our scorecards say specifically "Do not wave up on par threes", but some people (who don’t read the local rules) insist that they are "speeding things up". I tell them: "the best way to speed things up is to get to your ball without delay, talk while you walk – not on the tee while the fairway or green is open. Also, limit your practice swings, and hit when ready, read greens discreetly while others are putting and forget honours – play ready golf (whoever is ready hits), add up your score while walking to the next tee, not on the green of the hole you just played. Oh yeah.. when you get to the green leave your bag on the side closest to the next tee before you putt, that way you won’t have to walk past the flag to get it when you leave." Do you ever wonder how a pro can take so long over a shot or a putt and still only take 4 1/2 hours for a round? It’s because HE WALKS BRISKLY TO HIS BALL while the commercial is on, sometimes HE RUNS if he is ‘out of position’ - he doesn’t drag his rear-end and walk like METHUSALA! I know I probably sound a little too passionate on this but I think it needs to be said again.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … | - If the course is sufficiently backed up that I’m waiting on every tee | anyway, there’s no net gain to waving me up on a par-3. I can wait | longer on the tee at the par-3 or wait longer on the tee at the next hole. Well Dave, it had to happen sooner or later – we disagree on something. While on short par 3’s the gain may be negligible, on longer par 3’s the gain would be substantial. Most golfers end up playing long par 3’s like a par 4 (tee shot, approach shot, putts). If you don’t wave the following group up, you have to wait on the tee for the whole process where you could otherwise be walking to your tee shot while the group on the green putts out. As I mentioned in my response to this append earlier, the 6th hole at my course is one of these long par 3’s. I don’t care how slow the pace of play is, the wait on this hole is 4-5 times as long.
Turns out we don’t disagree on all that much. There are one or two holes in my neighborhood that fit this description (#15 at Spring Meadow is a classic), and I always wave the following group up on those. But they’re more the exception than the rule for par-threes, IMHO. I might add that there are a couple of holes I can think of (#16 at Hominy Hill, #7 at Spring Meadow) that SHOULD meet this criterion: relatively long par-3, followed by a par-5 for gosh sake! But experience shows that, when the course is backed up, waving folks up doesn’t seem to do anything for the congestion. Cheers! Dave
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Have you noticed that most slowdowns begin at the first par-3 hole? Or if it is a generally slow day from the start, it get’s even slower at the par 3’s. Usually, play is slower on a par 3, and the group behing has to wait not only for one shot, but for all putts as well. Instead of wating for the group ahead to play one shot and move on down the fairway, the following group has to wait for all putts as well. So offering to let the following group play up would speed up the rounds for all groups. But, everyone has to do it for it to be effective, and I hav’nt seen this practiced in several years.
Yes, I have noticed that play gets backed up at the first par 3 hole, particularly on my home course. But I still can’t imagine a scenario in which waving up would increase the pace of play, even if it was done every single time. You will get to hit off the tee sooner by getting waved up, but this will be offset by having to wait for the group behind to hit up before you can putt out. Or if you don’t wave up that group behind you, you will just end up waiting longer on the next tee before the group in front of you is clear. Basic principle here: assuming you aren’t going to play through, you must finish behind the group in front of you. If you make them wait for you to hit up on a par 3, you can only slow them down, not speed them up. Kevin
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have you noticed that most slowdowns begin at the first par-3 hole? Or if it is a generally slow day from the start, it get’s even slower at the par 3’s. Usually, play is slower on a par 3, and the group behing has to wait not only for one shot, but for all putts as well. Instead of wating for the group ahead to play one shot and move on down the fairway, the following group has to wait for all putts as well. So offering to let the following group play up would speed up the rounds for all groups. But, everyone has to do it for it to be effective, and I hav’nt seen this practiced in several years. Yes, I have noticed that play gets backed up at the first par 3 hole, particularly on my home course. But I still can’t imagine a scenario in which waving up would increase the pace of play, even if it was done every single time. You will get to hit off the tee sooner by getting waved up, but this will be offset by having to wait for the group behind to hit up before you can putt out. Or if you don’t wave up that group behind you, you will just end up waiting longer on the next tee before the group in front of you is clear. Basic principle here: assuming you aren’t going to play through, you must finish behind the group in front of you. If you make them wait for you to hit up on a par 3, you can only slow them down, not speed them up. Kevin
If all groups waved up the group behind on par 3’s the average time to play the par 3’s would decrease and the average time for the hole round would decrease. You won’t really be helped (for the hole round) if only the group just ahead of you waves you up, but if that group was waved up they would have finished the hole earlier wich means you will finish it earlier wich means the group behind you will finish it earlier wich means the group behind them will… and so on. You often hear statements like "It does not matter if we let the group behind tee off because they will have to wait on the next tee anyway". It is true, but what you gain is that more things can be done simultanously on the course and that will mean that the average time to complete a round will go down. Christer Lund
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – PLEASE!…STOP WAVING UP ON PAR THREES, putt out and get going, that is what speeds up play. I can’t find the exact article in my golf magazine (I have over 300), but it dealt with slow play and this practice. They were doing a study to see if waving up on par threes would speed up play. The conclusion was that it did not. At executive par three courses it was a disaster, adding an hour to a 3 1/2 hour round. Moreover, the practice is dangerous to the group doing the waving. I have seen a person looking into the sun get bonked by a ball because the group on the tee thought the wavers could see it, and so they didn’t yell ‘fore’. I Marshal our course and frequently have to stop people from waving. (snip)
Amen, Peter. The article you mention was in either Golf or Golf Digest. If anyone can dig it out I would like to send it to the Board at my club which just instituted the "wave up" rule. Slows play! Confuses thing on the green! Can be very dangerous!
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(Terry M. Lowe) writes: Waving a group up on a long par 3 would allow for balancing the wait between shots and keep the pace moving at an even rate. If the group ahead waves you on, then putts out while you approach your tee shots, you will basically maintain the same pace and separation as on the other holes. The principle is a lot like a pipeline operation. You may degrade performance for an individual operation (the group putting out) but you maximize performance for the whole process (everyone’s round).
Terry, how does this "maximize" the pace of play ? To consider a simple example, consider a day when all foursomes on the course are moving at the same pace. The first group of the day waits on a par three green to allow the following group to hit up. (I don’t know about you, but I’m not going to line up a putt while there are incoming balls !). There is no benefit to this first group to doing so … only a slowdown of 5 minutes or so to wait for the trailing group to hit. Instead of finishing in 4 hours, the first group finishes in 4 hours and 5 minutes. The second group does not have to wait to hit tee shots on the par three, so they play that hole more quickly than they otherwise would. Does this then imply that they will now finish the round more quickly ? NO ! Their pace of play, which is determined by the group in front, is now 4 hours and 5 minutes, not four hours. The "saved" time on the par three tee has resulted in a longer round for the second and all subsequent groups. I agree that there are circumstances in which it makes sense to allow a group to hit up on a par three, but to claim that it should be the norm simply makes no sense. There are ways in which the pace of play on the course can be speeded up; this isn’t one of them. Regards, Tom D.
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PLEASE!…STOP WAVING UP ON PAR THREES, putt out and get going, that is what speeds up play. <snip Moreover, the practice is dangerous to the group doing the waving. I have seen a person looking into the sun get bonked by a ball because the group on the tee thought the wavers could see it, and so they didn’t yell ‘fore’. I Marshal our course and frequently have to stop people from waving.
Amen The only time to wave a group up on a par 3 is for the purpose of letting them play through (in which case it makes the transition smoother and less time consuming). But if we are that obsessed (that we need to insist on the practice of waving up) with saving a few seconds on the golf course, maybe the golf course is not the best place for us to be at that given time. < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < <
Wentworth Baptist Church phone: 905-549-9610 (home) 905-522-2231 (office) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -< < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < <
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| What I failed to indicate (and I obviously should have) was the course | opened up WIDE at #10, so the Men’s Clubbers were just playing 9. If | the group in front of us, AND the group in front of them (there was only | one) would have allowed us to play thru, we could have gotten in 3-4 more | than we did before dark. | | Actually, that’s a lot more info. It tells me that, had you been able to | ask BOTH groups in front, it might have helped. But it also tells me that | you weren’t doing all you could. | | Once you realized that you weren’t going to get in a full 18 — AND that | there was a lot open on the back nine — you could have jumped to the back | nine and played there unrestricted. Maybe you mentioned why you didn’t | do this in the original article, but I don’t remember seeing it. My group | has done this on a number of occasions. It doesn’t work for a score round, | but it’s great if I’m not going to get in 18 anyway. I was wondering what the conditions were when they started w.r.t the back nine. I know at my course the starter will often send groups off of the back nine first after the leagues get under way because they only play nine holes so the back nine will be open. Then by the time you finish the back nine, the front nine will open up and you stand a better chance of getting 18 in. | BTW, I agree with the people who say: | - If I’m waiting for the group in front of me, there’s no social gain to | let anyone play through. Absolutely…where are they going to go? | - If the course is sufficiently backed up that I’m waiting on every tee | anyway, there’s no net gain to waving me up on a par-3. I can wait | longer on the tee at the par-3 or wait longer on the tee at the next hole. Well Dave, it had to happen sooner or later – we disagree on something. While on short par 3’s the gain may be negligible, on longer par 3’s the gain would be substantial. Most golfers end up playing long par 3’s like a par 4 (tee shot, approach shot, putts). If you don’t wave the following group up, you have to wait on the tee for the whole process where you could otherwise be walking to your tee shot while the group on the green putts out. As I mentioned in my response to this append earlier, the 6th hole at my course is one of these long par 3’s. I don’t care how slow the pace of play is, the wait on this hole is 4-5 times as long. There is no wait on the 7th hole. I figure that if every group waved the following group up on long par 3’s, it would save at least 15 minutes in the overall round for just this hole. Terry
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What I failed to indicate (and I obviously should have) was the course opened up WIDE at #10, so the Men’s Clubbers were just playing 9. If the group in front of us, AND the group in front of them (there was only one) would have allowed us to play thru, we could have gotten in 3-4 more than we did before dark.
Actually, that’s a lot more info. It tells me that, had you been able to ask BOTH groups in front, it might have helped. But it also tells me that you weren’t doing all you could. Once you realized that you weren’t going to get in a full 18 — AND that there was a lot open on the back nine — you could have jumped to the back nine and played there unrestricted. Maybe you mentioned why you didn’t do this in the original article, but I don’t remember seeing it. My group has done this on a number of occasions. It doesn’t work for a score round, but it’s great if I’m not going to get in 18 anyway. BTW, I agree with the people who say: - If I’m waiting for the group in front of me, there’s no social gain to let anyone play through. - If the course is sufficiently backed up that I’m waiting on every tee anyway, there’s no net gain to waving me up on a par-3. I can wait longer on the tee at the par-3 or wait longer on the tee at the next hole. Cheers! Dave
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snip, snip Yes, I have noticed that play gets backed up at the first par 3 hole, particularly on my home course. But I still can’t imagine a scenario in which waving up would increase the pace of play, even if it was done every single time. You will get to hit off the tee sooner by getting waved up, but this will be offset by having to wait for the group behind to hit up before you can putt out. Or if you don’t wave up that group behind you, you will just end up waiting longer on the next tee before the group in front of you is clear. Basic principle here: assuming you aren’t going to play through, you must finish behind the group in front of you. If you make them wait for you to hit up on a par 3, you can only slow them down, not speed them up. Kevin
Sorry, Kevin, but that is simply not true. Once each group reaches the green, it is true that you take a little longer because you let the group behind hit. And of course, you will still finish in the same order if no one plays through. However, the big savings are in the time everyone waits on the tee. Think about it, in your scenario, every group waits on the tee for the group ahead to tee-off, walk the fairway and putt out. Then the process begins again. With calling groups to hit, you have: one group putting, one group walking the fairway, and another group te’ed up and prepared to hit when they get the wave. It certainly makes sense to me and thousands of golf courses strictly enforce this rule with marshals sduring slow play. I don’t think they are all wrong. Gary Milligan Halifax, NS
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: :Out of deference to a "local" group (we were :visitors to the area), nothing was said about their not waving us up on :#3. : :Unless you are going to play through the group in front of you, why :do you want to be waved up on a par 3? I’ve played with guys that get :really angry when they don’t get waved up, but I just don’t get it. If (snip) :How did this silly tradition get started? Have you noticed that most slowdowns begin at the first par-3 hole? Or if it is a generally slow day from the start, it get’s even slower at the par 3’s. Usually, play is slower on a par 3, and the group behing has to wait not only for one shot, but for all putts as well. Instead of wating for the group ahead to play one shot and move on down the fairway, the following group has to wait for all putts as well. So offering to let the following group play up would speed up the rounds for all groups. But, everyone has to do it for it to be effective, and I hav’nt seen this practiced in several years. Regards, Mark J Mathis Buster’s NE Florida Golfing Corral, Guides to courses in the NE Florida area. ** http://www.fcol.com/~buster **
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What I failed to indicate (and I obviously should have) was the course opened up WIDE at #10, so the Men’s Clubbers were just playing 9. If the group in front of us, AND the group in front of them (there was only one) would have allowed us to play thru, we could have gotten in 3-4 more than we did before dark.
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| | Out of deference to a "local" group (we were | visitors to the area), nothing was said about their not waving us up on | #3. | | Unless you are going to play through the group in front of you, why | do you want to be waved up on a par 3? I’ve played with guys that get | really angry when they don’t get waved up, but I just don’t get it. If | you aren’t going to play through (which is usually the case, unless there is | a clear hole in front of them), then you won’t finish your round until after the | group in front of you finishes. Only two things can happen if they wave you up: | | 1) If the group in front of you is still waiting on the group in front of them, | the pace of play will be unaffected and you will finish your round in the same | amount of time as if you hadn’t been waved up. | | 2) If the play ahead is moving along, you are slowing down the group in front of | you, in which case you all finish your round later. | | How did this silly tradition get started? On short par 3’s it may be a nit, but for longer par 3’s waving groups to hit their tee shots after your group is on the green can DEFINITELY speed up the pace of play. Think about it – most golfers will not hit the green with their tee shots on longer par 3’s (170 yds). In fact when the par 3’s approach 190 yds and beyond a lot of golfers can’t even REACH the green. Those that can reach inevitably underclub because they remember only their best distance, not their typical distance. That means subsequent groups have to wait on approach shots and putting where they normally wait on putting on par 4’s and 5’s. At my own course this is demonstrated by our 6th hole. It plays anywhere from 180-195 yds from the white tees (course only has three sets of tees). Unless the course is empty you are guaranteed to be waiting on this hole. On weekends groups get stacked up 4-5 deep waiting on the tee, but there is never a backlog immediately following on the 7th tee and there wasn’t one on the 5th hole to start with. It all gets stacked up on 6. It is not uncommon to spend 20-30 minutes on hole 6. Now imagine if all groups waved the group behind them on. The first group gets on the green and waves the second group on. That group hits their tee shots then the first group putts out while the second group walks to their tee shots. The first group putts out and moves on. The second group hits their pitch shots onto the green and the third group approaches the tee. Second group waves them on ….etc.. There is no significant waiting, the only "impact" to pace of play is the amount of time it takes a foursome to hit tee shots, 2-3 minutes tops. However when you stack that up against the inevitable logjam, everyone comes out ahead (except the very first group) and no one has to stand on the tee taking 500 practice swings trying to keep loose. Terry
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We holed out on #1, and headed over to #2, where we had to wait upon a foursome, who hadn’t yet teed off, though it appeared to be clear in front of them. This group was nowhere in sight on #1. We asked about the wait, and they indicated they were the last group of the weekday evening Men’s Club, and there was another group in front of them holding them up.
If the foursome in front of you was keeping up with the group in front of them, you can’t expect to play through no matter how fast you play. We waited for them to finish their second shots, and proceeded to tee off. Upon completion of this hole (without incident), we headed to #3, a par 3. There were large signs posted at the tee indicating a course requirement to wave up groups behind you. The group in front of us all (finally) got on the green, and neglected to wave us up. So, we waited, finished the hole, and proceeded to #4 tee, where encountered this group.
If you caught up to the group at the next tee, waving you up would only have allowed you to catch up to the group on the tee that much faster. Why do you want to hurry up just to wait? I often go out late in the day on weekends. There’s no way to play 18 cause the course is full 3 or 4 holes ahead. I usually play a match against myself. I’ll play one ball conservatively and one ball just ripping it and see which strategy wins. I practice chipping and sand shots to keep from catching up. I also do some ball hunting cause the good spots are usually well stocked at the end of the day on a weekend. Playing late in the day is fun if you have the right expectations. Bob Dietrich
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The practice of "calling up" on a par 3 hole most certainly evens out the pace of play and speeds up the pace of play. How? First, the amount of wait time on the tee is reduced. I do not have to wait for them to putt out. I am walking to my ball while they are putting out. By reducing my wait time on the tee, they are evening out my pace of play. Second, while they are putting, we are moving towards the green instead of waiting on the tee for them to finish, thereby speeding up play. If every group were to do this, you would see less wait time on the tee and faster pace of play…. Robert Sileo Senior Programmer/Analyst Marywood College
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Out of deference to a "local" group (we were visitors to the area), nothing was said about their not waving us up on #3.
Unless you are going to play through the group in front of you, why do you want to be waved up on a par 3? I’ve played with guys that get really angry when they don’t get waved up, but I just don’t get it. If you aren’t going to play through (which is usually the case, unless there is a clear hole in front of them), then you won’t finish your round until after the group in front of you finishes. Only two things can happen if they wave you up: 1) If the group in front of you is still waiting on the group in front of them, the pace of play will be unaffected and you will finish your round in the same amount of time as if you hadn’t been waved up. 2) If the play ahead is moving along, you are slowing down the group in front of you, in which case you all finish your round later. How did this silly tradition get started? Kevin
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My question is this: Were they required by any of the rules to: 1. Allow us to play through, or 2. Wave us up on the par 3’s? Is this normally a regional decision, or were we just the victims of "Jerks on the course"?
Absolutely Not. If I were waiting constantly on the group ahead, I wouldn’t wave a group behind us through, either, because then I’d have to wait on TWO groups. Hey, you could be seven under after five holes and I’d be pretty impressed– but get this: If we are waiting on the group ahead, then WE CAN’T GO FASTER AND GET OUT OF YOUR WAY. If we let you through, we’re just going to start a chain reaction that’s going to slow down the whole course even more. I absolutely detest waiting for a group that has fallen behind the pace of play for a course, and I get pretty angry when they won’t let me play through and the hole is open in front of them, but when I see two groups on the hole ahead of me, I realize it’s time to get used to it and relax, because nobody’s going anywhere… unfortunately, it’s pretty frequent in Atlanta. Hitting up on the par 3’s is pretty harmless, unless you guys are pressing obviously to play through when we are already waiting. In that case, I’d probably just play straight to avoid confrontation when you guys tried to skip ahead and make us wait. Jeff Rogers Fins Up! http://www.mindspring.com/~jwrogers/ Indecision is the key to flexibility.
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I’m not quite sure how to address this, but here goes: Last week, a friend and I had the opportunity to play a course in the Pacific Northwest (I’ll not mention the city or course name), where it doesn’t get dark until quite late (well after 9:00 PM).
Nice trees and maybe mountains in the background? Love those courses. (Of course, we don’t have many mountains in Australia 
(Seriously, maybe only Bright in Victoria counts?) My question is this: Were they required by any of the rules to: 1. Allow us to play through, or 2. Wave us up on the par 3’s?
As another poster said, any group with more members than the one in behind is required to let them play through. However, given the litigous nature of the US, I am rather suprised that the course allowed you to hit up on other groups (cf of hitting other golfers). I too have had an annoying experience on the golf course lately. I played Yarra Bend for the first time in about 5 years, joined up with a young bloke and his father. I am (or was a reasonable player, off about 9, and like taking my time when playing shots. I also like to finish an 18 hole round in 3 hours, but that’s another story. Senior was less than impressed after I took about all of 30 seconds to line up and hit my first putt. Geez. And he was taking about 15 shots to get to the green. I however ignored him. Can’t really get upset with a round at Yarra Bend. —
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I’m not quite sure how to address this, but here goes: Last week, a friend and I had the opportunity to play a course in the Pacific Northwest (I’ll not mention the city or course name), where it doesn’t get dark until quite late (well after 9:00 PM). I called in advance to ask latest availble tee times, and was told to get there by 7:00 and we could get off. When we arrived, the 1st tee was open, and we were told to go ahead and start as a twosome. After teeing off, and seeing the green, we noticed that it too was empty (i.e., it appeared the course might well be open in front of us. We holed out on #1, and headed over to #2, where we had to wait upon a foursome, who hadn’t yet teed off, though it appeared to be clear in front of them. This group was nowhere in sight on #1. We asked about the wait, and they indicated they were the last group of the weekday evening Men’s Club, and there was another group in front of them holding them up. We waited for them to finish their second shots, and proceeded to tee off. Upon completion of this hole (without incident), we headed to #3, a par 3. There were large signs posted at the tee indicating a course requirement to wave up groups behind you. The group in front of us all (finally) got on the green, and neglected to wave us up. So, we waited, finished the hole, and proceeded to #4 tee, where encountered this group. Out of deference to a "local" group (we were visitors to the area), nothing was said about their not waving us up on #3. However, upon completion of this hole, we caught them again at the #5 tee, where we asked if we could play through. They indicated they would rather we didn’t, as (again) they were the last group of the Men’s Club, and if we played through, we would just have to wait for the next group anyway. Again, we said nothing… playing our normal (albeit fast) game (we were playing surprisingly well, both being 2-over after 5). We arrived at #6, another par 3, where… you guessed it… we had to wait on these guys (again). There were large signs posted at this tee indicating a course requirement to wave up groups behind you, which they again neglected to do. Upon arrival at #7, where we caught them again, we again asked if we could play through, and got nothing but profanity and verbal abuse. At this point, my partner and I decided to just sit back, enjoy the sunset and beautiful course, and let these horses asses play, though it was clear we wouldn’t get in 18 (which we clearly could have done if we hadn’t had any delays(. My question is this: Were they required by any of the rules to: 1. Allow us to play through, or 2. Wave us up on the par 3’s? Is this normally a regional decision, or were we just the victims of "Jerks on the course"?
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’m not quite sure how to address this, but here goes: Last week, a friend and I had the opportunity to play a course in the Pacific Northwest (I’ll not mention the city or course name), where it doesn’t get dark until quite late (well after 9:00 PM). I called in advance to ask latest availble tee times, and was told to get there by 7:00 and we could get off. When we arrived, the 1st tee was open, and we were told to go ahead and start as a twosome. After teeing off, and seeing the green, we noticed that it too was empty (i.e., it appeared the course might well be open in front of us. We holed out on #1, and headed over to #2, where we had to wait upon a foursome, who hadn’t yet teed off, though it appeared to be clear in front of them. This group was nowhere in sight on #1. We asked about the wait, and they indicated they were the last group of the weekday evening Men’s Club, and there was another group in front of them holding them up. We waited for them to finish their second shots, and proceeded to tee off. Upon completion of this hole (without incident), we headed to #3, a par 3. There were large signs posted at the tee indicating a course requirement to wave up groups behind you. The group in front of us all (finally) got on the green, and neglected to wave us up. So, we waited, finished the hole, and proceeded to #4 tee, where encountered this group. Out of deference to a "local" group (we were visitors to the area), nothing was said about their not waving us up on #3. However, upon completion of this hole, we caught them again at the #5 tee, where we asked if we could play through. They indicated they would rather we didn’t, as (again) they were the last group of the Men’s Club, and if we played through, we would just have to wait for the next group anyway. Again, we said nothing… playing our normal (albeit fast) game (we were playing surprisingly well, both being 2-over after 5). We arrived at #6, another par 3, where… you guessed it… we had to wait on these guys (again). There were large signs posted at this tee indicating a course requirement to wave up groups behind you, which they again neglected to do. Upon arrival at #7, where we caught them again, we again asked if we could play through, and got nothing but profanity and verbal abuse. At this point, my partner and I decided to just sit back, enjoy the sunset and beautiful course, and let these horses asses play, though it was clear we wouldn’t get in 18 (which we clearly could have done if we hadn’t had any delays(. My question is this: Were they required by any of the rules to: 1. Allow us to play through, or 2. Wave us up on the par 3’s? Is this normally a regional decision, or were we just the victims of "Jerks on the course"?
According to the Rules of Golf, under the section "Priority on the Course"(p12), ‘two-ball matches should have precedence over and be entitled to pass any three-or four-ball match, which should invite them through.’ Although here in England, it rarely happens. Especially if the home members are involved in a competition. However, a "call-up hole is a call-up hole in any Country, and the local members should have called you up. Hope their bad manners didn’t put you off your game. — Graeme N Slater