Question:
Some people here may be missing the point of Tiger’s game. He is one of the best strikers of the ball to come along in a long time.
He really is. I was watching him today for a while and he was hitting his irons as well as I’ve ever seen him. Too bad he couldn’t read a putt! Would have shot 62 or something if he had made half his 20 footers. -joseph
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It just isnt fun for me to see Nick Faldo or Lee Jansen or Payne Stewart play. YAWN! They are annoying to watch, they are boring!
You think Payne is boring? You need to pay more attention to how hard he is chewing his gum. -joseph
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No names were mentioned. How do you know Randy is talking about you? Fore Right!, Mark
He just knows. He also knows Tiger is, in his heart, breaking drivers and throwing hissies every day. -joseph
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Some people here may be missing the point of Tiger’s game. He is one of the best strikers of the ball to come along in a long time. It takes more than power, timing and equipment to stripe it out there like he does–it takes a lot emotion and confidence as well, and those qualities exude from him before, during and after a shot. If you don’t see what’s so special about him, watch him crisp a 256 yd 2i into a par 5 within 10 ft sometime. I have, and it’s awesome. He came to my town during a Nike Tour event (5 or 6 yrs ago as an amatuer, I believe), and to watch someone, anyone, hit a ball that pure is very inspiring. John Daly was here, too, and I felt the same way about him (at least at the time). What TW does in between shots is not really of any consequence, at least in the long run. It doesn’t matter if he does cartwheels down the fairway. At least he’s not shaking his fist in his opponent’s face and saying nah-na-na-nah-na. The fist pump is his "Ozzie Shuffle", maybe. I guess if there’s a negative here it’s that youngsters coming into the game may imitate him, as our high school football youngsters do thier NFL heroes. Mainly, we should understand the difference in pride for a good play/shot, and taunting. He’s no more flamboyant than many other golfers have been in their respective eras–Doug Sanders, Chi Chi Rodriguez, Walter Hagen, Lee Trevino, etc. What do people remember most about those guys now? That they had game, not so much thier lifestyles, thier celebrations in victory, or agony in defeat. Your record at the end is what counts. At least he’s not just another cookie-cutter, country club stereotype, of which there are many on the tour (yawn). I’m not any more Tiger advocate than the next guy, but I know what I like, and that’s watching a good golf shot–whoever hits it. These are just my opinions, and I could be wrong. Joe RSG roll call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/colej.htm
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Correction Correction….that’s Three Stooges, not Stoges, but then I never really watched ‘em that much. Hope to get this in before the typing police get me. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hmmm….that’s sorta like asking the Three Stoges to act dumber. Not sure about that… As Tiger’s win total rises, they will become increasingly irrelevant, and will appear more and more foolish. Randy
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"By the way, I do sort of see him as a saviour of golf, I hated the sport until he entered it. He is the only thing that makes it interesting."
Well we are talking about 2 different things, watching the game and playing the game. Tiger is the only thing that makes watching golf interesting I feel, because of the way he dominates the sport. Just like Michael Jordan was one of the only players who made basketball popular. It just isnt fun for me to see Nick Faldo or Lee Jansen or Payne Stewart play. YAWN! They are annoying to watch, they are boring! Tiger is fantastic to watch… I think David Duval is fun to watch play, and also Sergio Garcia. Most of the players on the circuit seem like assholes and snobs to me though, im sorry.. Now if we are talking about playing golf, I love to play whether Tiger exists or not. Gremlin
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Because I think people enjoy pulling talented "heroes" down – maybe envy plays a part here. when Jasck Nicklaus said in an interview on TV that Tiger was the most exciting player that he had ever watched play the game of golf – that was enough of an endorsement for me! I agree with him – and I have been playing golf (average-like) and watching good golfers and following tournaments – many times walking the 18 holes – for a long time. I am 80 years old. Have seen a lot of athletes come and go in my long years as a sports fan and I think he is one of the greatest. I admire his personality and his ability to always say just he "right" thing when being interviewed. Since these are "on the spot – unrerhearsed answers from him, I’m sure they must come from a person who had good family training.
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Gremlin, First of all, I can be here if I want to be here, and I dont need to STUDY the group. As far as I know, there is freedom of speech here.
I never said you couldn’t post here. I did say that this is a golf discussion group and that if you were looking for a Tiger fan page you should look elsewhere. You are free to post anything you want. But keep in mind that I and everyone else has the same right. And nobody has to read what either of us writes. As to studying the group, it is highly recommended in every FAQ (that is, Frequently Asked Questions document) that has to do with newsgroup etiquette, not to mention just being a smart thing to do if you are interested in being taken seriously. Readers tend to give more consideration to posts written by someone who has taken the time to study the subject and the target audience, especially when the writer is new. I read the FAQ’s and lurked in this group for over a month before posting my first message, and then it was only to ask a question about something a regular had written about. Second, I DO like the game of golf, Im just saying it was Tiger Woods that got me interested in the game. He made the game appealing to a lot of people through his personality and the flare he brings to the sport. But yes, I do like golf and I am a fan of it.
Below I have quoted the paragraph of your message that I was referring to in my response: "By the way, I do sort of see him as a saviour of golf, I hated the sport until he entered it. He is the only thing that makes it interesting." Are you suggesting that I should have been able to read your mind? You wrote that Tiger is the only thing that makes golf interesting. That certainly doesn’t sound like a real strong interest in golf, it does sounds like a real strong interest in Tiger. In USENET you are judged by what you write. Never assume, especially when new, that people can or will be able to infer or decipher what you meant. We can only go by what you actually wrote. People have to take things the way they are written in USENET, it is the only way the system can work. Don’t get mad when people respond to what you actually wrote instead of what you meant, it only makes you look foolish. If you meant something different then you should have written something different. I also believe that anyone who considers Tiger the "savior" of golf to be ignorant of the history of the game. The game didn’t need to be saved, it was doing just fine. Tiger did cause a sudden jump in popularity, but the game was growing before Tiger came along. He just sped things up. Gremlin
For the record, I do like Tiger. I just am not a rabid fan and I certainly don’t consider him the savior, but I admire his skill and ability and I believe that he is improving both as a golfer and as a person as he grows up. — Good Golf Dan RSG Roll Call http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/driscolld.htm
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acting the part of enfant terrible. Golf was just fine without him and his temper tantrums. I don’t appreciate your slander.
No names were mentioned. How do you know Randy is talking about you? Fore Right!, Mark Fairway: [faer-wai] "An unfamiliar tract of mown grass running directly from tee to the green. Your ball can usually be found immediately to the left or right of it." RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/blakem.htm
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Hmmm….that’s sorta like asking the Three Stoges to act dumber. Not sure about that…
As Tiger’s win total rises, they will become increasingly irrelevant, and – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -will appear more and more foolish. Randy
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First of all, I can be here if I want to be here, and I dont need to STUDY the group. As far as I know, there is freedom of speech here.
Yep. Second, I DO like the game of golf, Im just saying it was Tiger Woods that got me interested in the game. He made the game appealing to a lot of people through his personality and the flare he brings to the sport.
That’s exactly what I surmised from your post. But yes, I do like golf and I am a fan of it.
Good. Stay. Just be forewarned — your favorite player is not universally adored here. His critics will be quick to criticize YOU for liking him. Don’t cave in. They’re just a bunch of stodgy ol’ men who’ve been mad at the world ever since women were given the right to vote. As Tiger’s win total rises, they will become increasingly irrelevant, and will appear more and more foolish. Randy
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gremlin, If you had bothered to lurk and learn, you would have known that such a post would generate alot of conflicting responses. This is what happens when newbies post without studying the newsgroup first. Secondly, if the only reason you like golf is Tiger then you are not a golf fan at all, you are simply a Tiger fan. There is nothing wrong with being a Tiger fan, but this is rec.sport.golf, not rec.fan.Tiger. Tiger is one player is a very large sport. He also happens to be very controversial, as you have learned. There are plenty of Tiger dedicated websites and bulletin boards where you will find all the Tiger trivia and info you desire. If you are only interested in Tiger and not golf for its own sake then I suggest you check out some of those other sites. And Tiger was not the "savior" of golf because golf was not dying. If anything, golf was growing in popularity. Tiger did make golf seem ‘cool’ to kids and minorities and created an interest in the game there. But most of those new fans are just like you, they are only interested in Tiger, not in golf. If you become interested in golf, come back to RSG. But as long as your only interest is Tiger you will probably find better company at one or more of the Tiger websites or chat rooms.
First of all, I can be here if I want to be here, and I dont need to STUDY the group. As far as I know, there is freedom of speech here. Second, I DO like the game of golf, Im just saying it was Tiger Woods that got me interested in the game. He made the game appealing to a lot of people through his personality and the flare he brings to the sport. But yes, I do like golf and I am a fan of it. Gremlin
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Jesus! All I did was post a message saying how cool I thought Tiger was, and suddenly it has turned into a debate??? By the way, I do sort of see him as a saviour of golf, I hated the sport until he entered it. He is the only thing that makes it interesting. Gremlin
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Gremlin, If you had bothered to lurk and learn, you would have known that such a post would generate alot of conflicting responses. This is what happens when newbies post without studying the newsgroup first. Secondly, if the only reason you like golf is Tiger then you are not a golf fan at all, you are simply a Tiger fan. There is nothing wrong with being a Tiger fan, but this is rec.sport.golf, not rec.fan.Tiger. Tiger is one player is a very large sport. He also happens to be very controversial, as you have learned. There are plenty of Tiger dedicated websites and bulletin boards where you will find all the Tiger trivia and info you desire. If you are only interested in Tiger and not golf for its own sake then I suggest you check out some of those other sites. And Tiger was not the "savior" of golf because golf was not dying. If anything, golf was growing in popularity. Tiger did make golf seem ‘cool’ to kids and minorities and created an interest in the game there. But most of those new fans are just like you, they are only interested in Tiger, not in golf. If you become interested in golf, come back to RSG. But as long as your only interest is Tiger you will probably find better company at one or more of the Tiger websites or chat rooms. Jesus! All I did was post a message saying how cool I thought Tiger was, and suddenly it has turned into a debate??? By the way, I do sort of see him as a saviour of golf, I hated the sport until he entered it. He is the only thing that makes it interesting. Gremlin
– Good Golf Dan RSG Roll Call http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/driscolld.htm
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Hey, I thought you were declaring a truce. I have never been anything but honest in my opinions.
Excuse me? Go back and re-read my post. Nowhere in it did I name any names. Certainly not yours. Guilty conscience maybe? I don’t like having him crammed down my throat as the savior of golf
Who’s cramming him down your throat? Does your TV not have an "off" button? Who’s called him "the savior of golf?" Who? Please direct me to any announcer, any print publication or any other instance when anyone has ever said that Tiger Woods is "the savior of golf." It’s never happened. Seems like something of a double-standard to me. You don’t like having Tiger "crammed down your throat," but you insist cramming down *our* throats your persistent over-the-top negativity. And then you go whining about it when someone disagrees with you and calls you on statements you make. And yet you insist on using language and a tone that implies something that goes way beyond mere "dislike." C’mon Ken. You can’t have it both ways. Golf was just fine without him and his temper tantrums.
Golf’s TV ratings were in the tank in the mid ’90s, largely due to the fact that there was a dearth of dominant players and personalities that were magnetic. In particular, there was a lack of dominant, charismatic AMERICAN players. Since Tiger turned pro, gate receipts are up at every tournament he enters (sold out for the first time in history at many), and TV ratings are at an all-time high. Those are indisputable facts, and they fly in the face of your notion that "golf was just fine without him." Golf is doing much better now, thank you. I don’t appreciate your slander.
Slander? SLANDER???? S L A N D E R !!!!!!! I’ve needled you. I’ve never slandered you. That’s a good one, Ken. I don’t appreciate you putting words in my mouth. I am entitled to my opinion.
Of course you are. As am I. As is everyone. And we are also all free to disagree with one another. Since the forum in which you choose to express your opinions is a public one, you know full well the consequences of taking a position. You open yourself up to criticism and debate. I’ve taken issue with things you’ve said. And though I may have violated a rule of etiquette by posting a private e-mail you sent me, it revealed a TRUTH about you. Do you have a problem with the truth? You seem to want me locked up for thought crime. (See Orwell – 1984.)
You’re putting words in my mouth. I’ve never said that. I don’t think it. All you Tiger apologists continue to use age as an excuse. Now, it is supposed to be acceptable because his age group is supposedly loud, arrogant and rude ? Give me a break.
Wait a minute. I never said his age group is "loud, arrogant and rude." I said his behavior is pretty much in keeping with that of the younger generation. You’ve read into my statement alot, most of it is not what I intended to communicate. Gone are the days when the younger generation sits idly by waiting for their turn to take the baton. Today’s younger generation lives by the "no fear" rule, and they spit in the face of the old "wait your turn" paradigm of our generation. They play to win, and they play aggressively. This style is, in many ways, quite a departure from the subdued, play within yourself style we’ve come to know is the norm in golf. They say, "to hell with THAT." I applaud them for it. Golf is supposed to be a gentleman’s game played by gentlemen (and ladies). I didn’t say anything about rich or exclusive. One can be a gentleman with a broken-down set of used clubs and x-out balls.
Agreed. I never presumed you equated it with anything having to do with wealth. Have you ever (even once) seen or heard anything about JustinLeonard being anything but a gentleman ?
Nope. All the way back to his days at UTexas. Tiger could learn a lot about class and reserve from that **young** man.
And I suppose Jimmy Johnson could learn alot about class and reserve from a man named Landry. But both styles produced two Super Bowl trophies in Dallas. Just because one style works for one individual doesn’t mean it would work for another. But from what you’ve written here on the subject, I interpret that in your "perfect world," everyone would behave the same way — just the way *you* would want them to. That, sir, is a fantasy. Randy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ken <snip Their single-minded and perpetual hammering on this issue, along with what I believe to be an unyielding (almost anal-retentive) perseverance to spread their negativity gives rise to the suspicion that their reasons go beyond just Tiger’s behavior. Perhaps even to reasons none of us would like to believe exist in the modern world of multi-cultural society. But since those who harbor animosity towards others who "aren’t like themselves" usually hide behind more socially acceptable rationale for their behavior, it’s next to impossible to uncover their true, less-than-honorable motives. But that doesn’t stop some of us from wondering. Randy NEWLY UPDATED AND EXPANDED!!! One of the web’s most-visited personal golf websites Featured in USA TODAY, and in the USGA’s official publication, "Golf Journal" http://wwwgolfer.home.mindspring.com Now with more pages of instruction, golf news, links, essays, information and other cool stuff "Have you ever walked into a room and forgot why you walked in? Now you know how your dog feels."
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Because Michael has class and doesn’t act like a jerk? . People just love to try to tear down those whose success so far exceeds our own. I wonder how some (such as Michael Jordan) manage to escape the scorn? Go on over to rec.sports.basketball and see how frequently the Michael Jordan haters pop up even now: A lot more often than you would imagine. Do a search on dejanews, and you’ll be astonished. Among the conspiracy theories out there is the idea that NBC paid either or both of the NBA and the referees to "let" Michael Jordan become the hero that he only seemed to be, and that without their illegal help, he never would have done it. At least Tiger hasn’t aroused this level of hatred…yet.
Well, the Tiger Bashers are getting very close..They stay up all night thinking of different things to HATE Tiger for…:-) Coleman
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Mike has class for sure. He has however, had a tendency to act quite the ass-hole. Then again, I think we all do at times. Media hype is exactly that. Believe what you SEE. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Because Michael has class and doesn’t act like a jerk? . People just love to try to tear down those whose success so far exceeds our own. I wonder how some (such as Michael Jordan) manage to escape the scorn?
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Because Michael has class and doesn’t act like a jerk? . People just love to try to tear down those whose success so far exceeds our own. I wonder how some (such as Michael Jordan) manage to escape the scorn?
Go on over to rec.sports.basketball and see how frequently the Michael Jordan haters pop up even now: A lot more often than you would imagine. Do a search on dejanews, and you’ll be astonished. Among the conspiracy theories out there is the idea that NBC paid either or both of the NBA and the referees to "let" Michael Jordan become the hero that he only seemed to be, and that without their illegal help, he never would have done it. At least Tiger hasn’t aroused this level of hatred…yet. — Paul T. Wilson Prof of Reading
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Probably because his endorsements total about $80M more than any of ours, he’s got more game on his worst day than most of us on our best, and he dates really gorgeous chicks while most of us are married to fat, ugly old ladies. People just love to try to tear down those whose success so far exceeds our own. I wonder how some (such as Michael Jordan) manage to escape the scorn? — http://home.midsouth.rr.com/joecartpath RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/reedj.htm
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For all the people putting down Tiger Woods, I think he is wonderful for the game of golf. I would never have taken up golf as a hobby if it wasnt for him and the charisma and energy he has brought to the game. He has taken golf to a new level and I think he is by far the most exciting player to watch. Why do people put him down in this newsgroup??? GrEmLiN
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Because Michael has class and doesn’t act like a jerk?
. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -People just love to try to tear down those whose success so far exceeds our own. I wonder how some (such as Michael Jordan) manage to escape the scorn?
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In article I don’t like having him crammed down my throat as the savior of golf while he’s acting the part of enfant terrible. Golf was just fine without him and his temper tantrums. I don’t appreciate your slander. I am entitled to my opinion. You seem to want me locked up for thought crime. (See Orwell – 1984.)
Your behavior isn’t a crime and Woods behavior is not a crime either. But just as you wish to have the Woods hype stopped, many of us wish for you to stop your anti-hype campaign. Woods people are not the posters trolling this group. B. Martin
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Hey, I thought you were declaring a truce. I have never been anything but honest in my opinions. I would feel the same about TW’s misdeeds if he looked like BillGlasson. My whole motivation. I don’t like having him crammed down my throat as the savior of golf while he’s acting the part of enfant terrible. Golf was just fine without him and his temper tantrums. I don’t appreciate your slander. I am entitled to my opinion. You seem to want me locked up for thought crime. (See Orwell – 1984.) All you Tiger apologists continue to use age as an excuse. Now, it is supposed to be acceptable because his age group is supposedly loud, arrogant and rude ? Give me a break. Golf is supposed to be a gentleman’s game played by gentlemen (and ladies). I didn’t say anything about rich or exclusive. One can be a gentleman with a broken-down set of used clubs and x-out balls. Have you ever (even once) seen or heard anything about JustinLeonard being anything but a gentleman ? All the way back to his days at UTexas. Tiger could learn a lot about class and reserve from that **young** man. Ken <snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Their single-minded and perpetual hammering on this issue, along with what I believe to be an unyielding (almost anal-retentive) perseverance to spread their negativity gives rise to the suspicion that their reasons go beyond just Tiger’s behavior. Perhaps even to reasons none of us would like to believe exist in the modern world of multi-cultural society. But since those who harbor animosity towards others who "aren’t like themselves" usually hide behind more socially acceptable rationale for their behavior, it’s next to impossible to uncover their true, less-than-honorable motives. But that doesn’t stop some of us from wondering. Randy NEWLY UPDATED AND EXPANDED!!! One of the web’s most-visited personal golf websites Featured in USA TODAY, and in the USGA’s official publication, "Golf Journal" http://wwwgolfer.home.mindspring.com Now with more pages of instruction, golf news, links, essays, information and other cool stuff "Have you ever walked into a room and forgot why you walked in? Now you know how your dog feels."
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For all the people putting down Tiger Woods, I think he is wonderful for the game of golf. I would never have taken up golf as a hobby if it wasnt for him and the charisma and energy he has brought to the game. He has taken golf to a new level and I think he is by far the most exciting player to watch. Why do people put him down in this newsgroup??? GrEmLiN
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —— Original Message —– Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf Sent: Sunday, August 22, 1999 10:52 PM For all the people putting down Tiger Woods, I think he is wonderful for the game of golf. I would never have taken up golf as a hobby if it wasnt for him and the charisma and energy he has brought to the game. He has taken golf to a new level and I think he is by far the most exciting player to watch. Why do people put him down in this newsgroup??? GrEmLiN Gremlin, Like you, I enjoy watching Tiger. I think he’s the most exciting player in golf, and I pull for him every time he’s in the field. I hope he re-writes the record book. The reasons why alot of people criticize him are many. The reason most frequently cited is his demonstrative behavior, be it fist-pumping or other displays of aggression; and his temper tantrums, displays of which range from slamming clubs in the ground to cursing (which is often overheard by nearby microphones, sending it out over network TV for women and children to hear). I’ve always taken the position that his behavior is pretty typical of the younger generation today, and not all that different from how most of us might have behaved at 23. But that reasoning seems to fall on deaf ears. His critics won’t let up on this, some of whom have sounded like a broken record for a while now. Their single-minded and perpetual hammering on this issue, along with what I believe to be an unyielding (almost anal-retentive) perseverance to spread their negativity gives rise to the suspicion that their reasons go beyond just Tiger’s behavior. Perhaps even to reasons none of us would like to believe exist in the modern world of multi-cultural society. But since those who harbor animosity towards others who "aren’t like themselves" usually hide behind more socially acceptable rationale for their behavior, it’s next to impossible to uncover their true, less-than-honorable motives. But that doesn’t stop some of us from wondering. Randy NEWLY UPDATED AND EXPANDED!!! One of the web’s most-visited personal golf websites Featured in USA TODAY, and in the USGA’s official publication, "Golf Journal" http://wwwgolfer.home.mindspring.com Now with more pages of instruction, golf news, links, essays, information and other cool stuff "Have you ever walked into a room and forgot why you walked in? Now you know how your dog feels."