Question:
writes: It was a joke, a jibe, a barb. This newsgroup seems to be irony-impaired.
Uhhh…kinda like Mr. Fuzzy’s comments to Tiger? My sister acquired quite a collection of balls that strayed into our yard.
hehehe…I’ll bet some of those could have been mine with the kinda slice I have. Can I have them back? :) Alex.
Response:
<< : << I heard about that. Michael is from North Carolina and : chicken and collard greens are a Southern favorite. Tiger is from : California, : where chicken and collard greens are on very few menus. If Fuzzy had joked : about California cuisine when Tiger won, I don’t think anyone would have : been offended. : - Young << It’s probably the preferred method of cooking chicken in most American homes… black or white. My point was about the combination of fried chicken & collard greens, which evoke a black instead of regional stereotype. You’ve proven my point. It is because Fuzzy evoked a stereotype that applies to blacks, poor blacks in particular, and not a particular REGIONAL stereotype, that there was such a big fuss. As you can see from your posts above, you were the one that brought regions into the disscusion, not me. Why is that you state eating chicken that is fried is probably the prefered method, then go on to state poor blacks are the ones that were stereotyped by Fuzzy? Rob P.S. Understand that I do not agree with what Fuzzy said, but if you disliked what he said, why no post with negative comments on Tiger’s homophobia?
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: Young Young Young… : You’re awfully presumptuous for a person who believes in FACTS. : Uhhh….where to start here… : First off, you know for a FACT that I have yet to earn my high school : diploma? It was a joke, a jibe, a barb. This newsgroup seems to be irony-impaired. : Second off, you made a sweeping statement about the club you lived next : to; "The golfers were white. The caddies were black." Is that a FACT?? Point taken. Let me rephrase. All of the caddies I SAW were black; all of the golfers I SAW were white. I saw HUNDREDS of golfers (or perhaps, several dozen golfers over and over again). A fairway was on the other side of our backyard fence. My sister acquired quite a collection of balls that strayed into our yard. – Young
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Young Young Young… You’re awfully presumptuous for a person who believes in FACTS. Uhhh….where to start here… First off, you know for a FACT that I have yet to earn my high school diploma? Second off, you made a sweeping statement about the club you lived next to; "The golfers were white. The caddies were black." Is that a FACT?? I mean, you actually sat your ass on the course day in and day out for the entire year and a half you lived next to a golf course in Tuscaloosa, Alabama and *only* saw white golfers and black caddies? Come on!! According to my dictionary (albeit an unused one from high school), a stereotype is defined as an oversimplified conception or belief. You took an obervation or two or ten or thirty three, that there were ONLY black caddies and ONLY white golfers (at your club). Until you can prove unequivocally (whoa! where’d that word come from??) that there are ONLY black caddies and ONLY white golfers, then what you just proved was your own ability to…yes, that’s right Young…stereotype. You see, Young, neato words such as "stereotyping" and "racism" isn’t limited only to angry white males. But I’m getting away from my point here. Instead of being fair and accurate by saying something like…"the *majority* of golfers I saw were white and the *majority* of caddies I saw were black, which looks to me like par for the course (ooooo, a pun 
) for Bama", you HAD to say "I lived in Tuscaloosa, Alabama for a year and a half. Next to a golf course of all things. The golfers were white. The caddies were black. Hmmm…" Oh, and one other thing I want to say is that it seems you like to open conversations with "You’re rather in the dark about stereotypes aren’t you?" and "Before you post, please earn your high school diploma." Rather insulting, no? Please, if you learn anything from this, try to understand that unless you can walk on water, you and I are not perfect; try to be fair and as accurate as possible. If you use definitives (thank the good Lord for a thesaurus!), then you fall into the trap of stereotyping. Alex. ps. Just between you and me, I’d watch your grammar, buddy. Seems that you’ve yet to earn *your* hi skooool diploma. pps. I’ve yet to graduate, so I’m excused from any errors
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writes: You’re rather in the dark about stereotypes aren’t you? They exist whether there is a factual basis to them or not. <snip Both are negative stereotypes. You would have to be terribly misinformed to believe otherwise. I lived in Tuscaloosa, Alabama for a year and a half. Next to a golf course of all things. The golfers were white. The caddies were black. Hmmm…
Are we stereotyping here? I’d be real careful of tossing those stones, bud. Alex. ** never attribute to malice, what can be adequately explained through stupidity **
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: writes:
: You’re rather in the dark about stereotypes aren’t you? They exist whether : there is a factual basis to them or not. <snip Both are negative : stereotypes. You would have to be terribly misinformed to believe otherwise. : : I lived in Tuscaloosa, Alabama for a year and a half. Next to a golf course : of all things. The golfers were white. The caddies were black. Hmmm… : Are we stereotyping here? I’d be real careful of tossing those stones, : bud. Before you post, please earn your high school diploma. At the very least, borrow a dictionary and look up "stereotype." I was stating a FACT about the golfers and caddies at a particular country club in Alabama during a particular time period. As you notice, I did not say golfers had to be white, or even are generally white. I did not apply my observation to any OTHER individual golfer or caddie. I simply made an observation about the state of affairs at a particular club during a particular time period. In fact, as I know that there are many BLACK golfers and many WHITE caddies, I would say that the country club in question had racially discriminatory policies. – Young
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Young: You’re right (and your analysis is well presented) but haven’t you figured out that the people you are arguing with don’t give two hoots about facts? This is like watching Mort Downey back in the good old days (anyone else remember Joe Pyne?) attacking some poor guest who had facts on his side, but no one was listening…. entertaining, but you might as well be whistling in the wind! — —Joel Maillie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : << I heard about that. Michael is from North Carolina and : chicken and collard greens are a Southern favorite. Tiger is from : California, : where chicken and collard greens are on very few menus. If Fuzzy had joked : about California cuisine when Tiger won, I don’t think anyone would have : been offended. : - Young : Once again you show your lack of knowledge. If you ever went into the : "black" areas of San Francisco, or if you went across the bay into Oakland, : you would find that most blacks here eat chicken(with fried being the : prefered method of cooking). It’s probably the preferred method of cooking chicken in most American homes… black or white. My point was about the combination of fried chicken & collard greens, which evoke a black instead of regional stereotype. :I know because not only did I grow up and live : most of my 25 yrs in one of the "black" neighborhoods, I did armed security : in one of the nations worst housing projects here in SF which was : predominately black. If you think blacks in Cal don’t eat chicken or collard : greens, you are a fool. You’ve proven my point. It is because Fuzzy evoked a stereotype that applies to blacks, poor blacks in particular, and not a particular REGIONAL stereotype, that there was such a big fuss. By the way, what do the housing projcts of SF have to do with the middle class and upper middle class neighborhoods in Southern California where Tiger grew up? Tiger did not grow up in the projects, and chicken & collard greens is not considered California cuisine, no matter how popular or not it is in the housing projects of California. – Young P.S. I worked in a blighted and largely black area of West Oakland. I lived in a fourplex on Lake Merritt…three black families and myself.
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: When you make certain assumptions about an INDIVIDUAL based on stereotypes, : real or imagined, pertaining to skin color, that is RACIAL PREJUDICE : (i.e., prejudging an individual based on the color of his skin). : When the stereotype in question has a negative connotation (fried chicken : and collard greens being associated, wrongly or not, with poor black : families) it’s particularly offensive. : : If you are still in the dark concerning the concepts of prejudice and : stereotypes, I don’t think I or anyone else could enlighten you any further. : : – Young : What assumption was made? You’re assuming fried chicken and collared : greens are associated with "only" poor blacks. You’re defining the : stereotype and it’s negative meaning based "soley" on you’re opinion and : own stereotypes. Are you’re remarks not a racial stereotype since you : obviously feel rich blacks would not eat fried chicken or collared : greens? Or whites for that matter. What about Mexicans, do you assume : they only eat tacos, do you think the Japanese only eat sushi. No they : don’t, but they sure eat alot of those particular foods. I know : Mexicans eat ALOT of Tacos and Japanese eat ALOT of sushi, my : observations do not make me a racist and it’s not a stereotype, it’s an : observation and experience I have been apart of. Just because you might : be Mexican or Japanese and not eat those foods, and someone assumes you : might doesn’t make it a racial or "negative" stereotype. You’re rather in the dark about stereotypes aren’t you? They exist whether there is a factual basis to them or not. When someone says that fried chicken and collard greens is a stereotype associated with poor blacks, it does not mean that only poor blacks eat fried chicken and collard greens. In fact, it’s in the realm of possibility that the vast majority of poor blacks don’t eat fried chicken and collard greens. However, the stereotype evokes poor blacks (for whatever historical reasons) just as red necks evoke poor whites (for whatever historical reasons). Both are negative stereotypes. You would have to be terribly misinformed to believe otherwise. : Obviously you’ve never lived in the south and have not eaten it’s : "traditional" or "cultural" dishes. You should talk to southern blacks : and find out if they themselves feel it’s a racial stereotype. I think : you would be surprised by the answers. I lived in Tuscaloosa, Alabama for a year and a half. Next to a golf course of all things. The golfers were white. The caddies were black. Hmmm… – Young
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When you make certain assumptions about an INDIVIDUAL based on stereotypes, real or imagined, pertaining to skin color, that is RACIAL PREJUDICE (i.e., prejudging an individual based on the color of his skin). When the stereotype in question has a negative connotation (fried chicken and collard greens being associated, wrongly or not, with poor black families) it’s particularly offensive. If you are still in the dark concerning the concepts of prejudice and stereotypes, I don’t think I or anyone else could enlighten you any further. – Young
What assumption was made? You’re assuming fried chicken and collared greens are associated with "only" poor blacks. You’re defining the stereotype and it’s negative meaning based "soley" on you’re opinion and own stereotypes. Are you’re remarks not a racial stereotype since you obviously feel rich blacks would not eat fried chicken or collared greens? Or whites for that matter. What about Mexicans, do you assume they only eat tacos, do you think the Japanese only eat sushi. No they don’t, but they sure eat alot of those particular foods. I know Mexicans eat ALOT of Tacos and Japanese eat ALOT of sushi, my observations do not make me a racist and it’s not a stereotype, it’s an observation and experience I have been apart of. Just because you might be Mexican or Japanese and not eat those foods, and someone assumes you might doesn’t make it a racial or "negative" stereotype. Obviously you’ve never lived in the south and have not eaten it’s "traditional" or "cultural" dishes. You should talk to southern blacks and find out if they themselves feel it’s a racial stereotype. I think you would be surprised by the answers. P.S. Stop being a victim. Go play some golf and enjoy whatever food you like, even if it’s fried chicken and collared greens.
Response:
Most of you don’t get it. If Fuzzy had only commented about the food, he would have been fine. He probably would have received little flak for calling Tiger little boy since he calls others that. Where Fuzzy crossed the line was the ‘whatever the hell THEY serve’ comment. That statement made it a them and us issue. That statement was clearly not a joke and Fuzzy should take responsibility for it. And that doesn’t include, ‘I’m sorry, it was just a joke.’ Bob Dietrich
What do you think Fuzzy should do for calling cooks "them"? Should he kill himself or go into into exile? Maybe you think he should never play golf again. Maybe you need to get a grip.
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What do you think Fuzzy should do for calling cooks "them"? Should he kill himself or go into into exile? Maybe you think he should never play golf again. Maybe you need to get a grip.
Hmmm. Your first name isn’t Mike by any chance… doug — "It is easier to confess a defect than to claim a quality" – Max Beerbohm
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: But what does this have to do with Tiger? Tiger is from California. : Tiger’s Thai mother has even said that she doubts Tiger even KNOWS what : collard greens are since she’s never cooked collard greens in her life. : : – Young : It has to do with Tiger because apparently he has some African-American : blood in him and "someone" had portrayed the remark by Fuzzy as a racial : stereotype. Some stereotypes are true. When you make certain assumptions about an INDIVIDUAL based on stereotypes, real or imagined, pertaining to skin color, that is RACIAL PREJUDICE (i.e., prejudging an individual based on the color of his skin). When the stereotype in question has a negative connotation (fried chicken and collard greens being associated, wrongly or not, with poor black families) it’s particularly offensive. If you are still in the dark concerning the concepts of prejudice and stereotypes, I don’t think I or anyone else could enlighten you any further. – Young
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: Blacks at my work have often spoke of their fondness of fried chiken and : collared greens during conversations. It’s part of cultural heritage, : including southern whites. Had a black golfer made the same comment, : would there be the same reactions? I doubt it, actually I think it’s : only a negative stereotype for the ignorant or those who are ashamed for : some reason. Having lived in the south for many years, I know it’s not : a "sterotype" but a fact of life. There is a differance. But what does this have to do with Tiger? Tiger is from California. Tiger’s Thai mother has even said that she doubts Tiger even KNOWS what collard greens are since she’s never cooked collard greens in her life. – Young
Response:
Most of you don’t get it. If Fuzzy had only commented about the food, he would have been fine. He probably would have received little flak for calling Tiger little boy since he calls others that. Where Fuzzy crossed the line was the ‘whatever the hell THEY serve’ comment. That statement made it a them and us issue. That statement was clearly not a joke and Fuzzy should take responsibility for it. And that doesn’t include, ‘I’m sorry, it was just a joke.’ Bob Dietrich
Response:
But what does this have to do with Tiger? Tiger is from California. Tiger’s Thai mother has even said that she doubts Tiger even KNOWS what collard greens are since she’s never cooked collard greens in her life. – Young
It has to do with Tiger because apparently he has some African-American blood in him and "someone" had portrayed the remark by Fuzzy as a racial stereotype. Some stereotypes are true.
Response:
Blacks at my work have often spoke of their fondness of fried chiken and collared greens during conversations. It’s part of cultural heritage, including southern whites. Had a black golfer made the same comment, would there be the same reactions? I doubt it, actually I think it’s only a negative stereotype for the ignorant or those who are ashamed for some reason. Having lived in the south for many years, I know it’s not a "sterotype" but a fact of life. There is a differance.
Response:
: << I heard about that. Michael is from North Carolina and : chicken and collard greens are a Southern favorite. Tiger is from : California, : where chicken and collard greens are on very few menus. If Fuzzy had joked : about California cuisine when Tiger won, I don’t think anyone would have : been offended. : - Young : Once again you show your lack of knowledge. If you ever went into the : "black" areas of San Francisco, or if you went across the bay into Oakland, : you would find that most blacks here eat chicken(with fried being the : prefered method of cooking). It’s probably the preferred method of cooking chicken in most American homes… black or white. My point was about the combination of fried chicken & collard greens, which evoke a black instead of regional stereotype. :I know because not only did I grow up and live : most of my 25 yrs in one of the "black" neighborhoods, I did armed security : in one of the nations worst housing projects here in SF which was : predominately black. If you think blacks in Cal don’t eat chicken or collard : greens, you are a fool. You’ve proven my point. It is because Fuzzy evoked a stereotype that applies to blacks, poor blacks in particular, and not a particular REGIONAL stereotype, that there was such a big fuss. By the way, what do the housing projcts of SF have to do with the middle class and upper middle class neighborhoods in Southern California where Tiger grew up? Tiger did not grow up in the projects, and chicken & collard greens is not considered California cuisine, no matter how popular or not it is in the housing projects of California. – Young P.S. I worked in a blighted and largely black area of West Oakland. I lived in a fourplex on Lake Merritt…three black families and myself.
Response:
<< I heard about that. Michael is from North Carolina and chicken and collard greens are a Southern favorite. Tiger is from California, where chicken and collard greens are on very few menus. If Fuzzy had joked about California cuisine when Tiger won, I don’t think anyone would have been offended. - Young Once again you show your lack of knowledge. If you ever went into the "black" areas of San Francisco, or if you went across the bay into Oakland, you would find that most blacks here eat chicken(with fried being the prefered method of cooking). I know because not only did I grow up and live most of my 25 yrs in one of the "black" neighborhoods, I did armed security in one of the nations worst housing projects here in SF which was predominately black. If you think blacks in Cal don’t eat chicken or collard greens, you are a fool. Rob