– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – says… What’s the weirdest hole you have seen? <snip — http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery ) http://www.meadowsfarms.com/golf/watrfall.htm Check out number 8. It’s made to look like you are hitting to a baseall diamond. It’s plenty weird.
And the 12th hole is pretty amazing, too. First Par 6 hole I’ve ever seen. Eliyahu
Ah, yes, the dreaded hole design that forces a layup off the tee, leaving "all you got" for a second shot. Forgot all about #6 at Eagle’s Watch (or Eagle’s Landing or somesuch) in Chattanooga. 5-iron off the tee to lay up to the "end of the world". 3-wood second shot, all carry to the green that’s way down below, but considerably elevated from the dip in front of it. Played it a number of times. Never parred it. Come to think of it, any golf hole that has a long forced carry is, in my mind, a poorly designed hole. There’s a whole bunch of them at a place near me called Sugar Hill GC. One in particular is especially bothersome. The weird thing about this course is that the white tees generally make the course much too short at around 5400. But the blue tees, which move you back to only around 6300, if memory serves, puts the tees on some of these holes in places where I simply can’t get across even on my best day. The one hole in particular that I have in mind (can’t recall the hole number) is about a 180 carry even from the whites. When the blue tees are back (as they often are), it’s about 225, maybe 240 to get across. That’s CRAZY. I can’t help wondering what the ol’ geezers or women do on that hole, especially when there’s a strong headwind. They’re both faced with anywhere from around 180-165 (women’s tees) just to get over the water. And there’s no place to bail out. That’s just stupid. The designer should be strung up by his balls. Life’s too short to play bad golf courses. And that’s why I haven’t been back to that place. Too bad. It’s a pretty piece of land. Randy
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think there are a variety of unusual holes… One category is a hole that ABSOLUTELY forces you to hit a short club off the tee then all you want for your second shot. There’s one of those at the course just off the runway of the Columbus OH Airport. They do it with a small tre lined chute. Tee shot is maybe a 4, 5, 6 iron and follow that with a 3w. 
I like "backwards" holes. #10 at the Gattlinburg Country Club (or what ever it’s called these resembles one. Huge hills on both sides of the fairway and an elevated tee box make it a nice looking hole. Looks so easy from the tee. While I’ve never actually played it, General Butler State Park has/had a course built into a ski slope size hill (in fact they had a ski resort there for a few years) and they didn’t move very much earth to level the fairways. Many of the holes played around the hill… not up and down it. I’m told a perfect shot on the upper side of the fairway always rolled to the low side. I guess every shot was up and across the the fairway. Any hole designed to be played as a par 3, 4 or 5 would be pretty unusual. Although I beleive someone recently built a whole course of these multi-par holes.
You’re right about the 18th hole. I almost mentioned it, but figured it was too hard to explain. I’ve played the course twice. Never lost a ball in the water on 17. The first time I played it, I aimed for the little inlet you’re talking about on 18 and had a play to the green in 2. Absolutely clocked a 3-wood (as good as I’ve ever hit a 3-wood in my life) and actually went over the green. Had a tricky downhill chip, and failed to get up and down for birdie, but I did make par. The next day when we played it again, I hit another terrific tee shot to practically the same spot, but cold-topped my 3-wood and had a wedge in. Par both days. Interesting little golf course, and the price is right, too. Carved out of a privately-owned apple orchard; hence the name Apple Tree. This is an especially well-kept golf course in the middle of nowhere (I would call Yakima, WA "nowhere"), and I think we played for like $18 a person INCLUDING CART. Amazing. Randy
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Easily the "weirdest" design feature I’ve seen are these, although I wouldn’t characterize either one as "bad." Hole #17 – Appletree GC, Yakima, WA Par three hole with an island green, in the shape of a big green apple, the shape of which is quite visible from the highly elevated tee. bunker behind the green in the shape of a leaf, and the bridge leading to the green from behind appears as the "stem." While yes, #17 at Apple Tree is strange, it’s more of a strange novelty than a strange quirk of design. A little Muirhead tribute. http://community.webshots.com/photo/86835943/86838652NQjomH The one that’s really quirky at Apple Tree is the 18th. A Tetris puzzle of a hole if I’ve ever seen one. Par 5 about 500 or so, but you can really cut some distance off this sucker if you’re able to launch one high enough to clear the water on the left, but soft enough to stay on the small island of fairway between the water and bunker. The picture link below was taken from the 17th tee, but show the layout of the tee shot pretty well. The teeing ground for the 18th is located on the right edge of the picture and the 1st and 2nd shots hug the right side of the lake. http://community.webshots.com/photo/86835943/86838632VqMOki The second shot is super uphill to a really tricky green. A large Apple shaped waste bunker with red-ish sand awaits any wayward shots and leaves a tough 50 yard semi-blind explosion shot. http://community.webshots.com/photo/86835943/86838829iThzHP The 16th is one the best/underated holes in the Northwest, IMHO. Really tight if you take the driver from the tee. http://community.webshots.com/photo/86835943/86838524JcJdTK I don’t know who took these pictures, but they are great! :-) — Washington State University "That shot is impossible!…Jack Nicholson himself couldn’t make it!"– Homer Simpson
Easily the "weirdest" design feature I’ve seen are these, although I wouldn’t characterize either one as "bad." Hole #17 – Appletree GC, Yakima, WA Par three hole with an island green, in the shape of a big green apple, the shape of which is quite visible from the highly elevated tee. bunker behind the green in the shape of a leaf, and the bridge leading to the green from behind appears as the "stem."
While yes, #17 at Apple Tree is strange, it’s more of a strange novelty than a strange quirk of design. A little Muirhead tribute. http://community.webshots.com/photo/86835943/86838652NQjomH The one that’s really quirky at Apple Tree is the 18th. A Tetris puzzle of a hole if I’ve ever seen one. Par 5 about 500 or so, but you can really cut some distance off this sucker if you’re able to launch one high enough to clear the water on the left, but soft enough to stay on the small island of fairway between the water and bunker. The picture link below was taken from the 17th tee, but show the layout of the tee shot pretty well. The teeing ground for the 18th is located on the right edge of the picture and the 1st and 2nd shots hug the right side of the lake. http://community.webshots.com/photo/86835943/86838632VqMOki The second shot is super uphill to a really tricky green. A large Apple shaped waste bunker with red-ish sand awaits any wayward shots and leaves a tough 50 yard semi-blind explosion shot. http://community.webshots.com/photo/86835943/86838829iThzHP The 16th is one the best/underated holes in the Northwest, IMHO. Really tight if you take the driver from the tee. http://community.webshots.com/photo/86835943/86838524JcJdTK I don’t know who took these pictures, but they are great! :-) — Washington State University "That shot is impossible!…Jack Nicholson himself couldn’t make it!"– Homer Simpson
I think there are a variety of unusual holes… One category is a hole that ABSOLUTELY forces you to hit a short club off the tee then all you want for your second shot. There’s one of those at the course just off the runway of the Columbus OH Airport. They do it with a small tre lined chute. Tee shot is maybe a 4, 5, 6 iron and follow that with a 3w. I like "backwards" holes. #10 at the Gattlinburg Country Club (or what ever it’s called these resembles one. Huge hills on both sides of the fairway and an elevated tee box make it a nice looking hole. Looks so easy from the tee. While I’ve never actually played it, General Butler State Park has/had a course built into a ski slope size hill (in fact they had a ski resort there for a few years) and they didn’t move very much earth to level the fairways. Many of the holes played around the hill… not up and down it. I’m told a perfect shot on the upper side of the fairway always rolled to the low side. I guess every shot was up and across the the fairway. Any hole designed to be played as a par 3, 4 or 5 would be pretty unusual. Although I beleive someone recently built a whole course of these multi-par holes.
What’s the weirdest hole you have seen? By weird I’m not talking about challenging, but about holes with unusual design features. <snip I played a par 4 once that had a line of tall trees completely blocking view of the green (right in front of the green).
That sounds like the second hole at Hank Haney’s Golf Ranch, a straight par 4 of about 300 yds with a line of tall trees right before the green that you have to hit over. You can actually get into trouble hitting driver on the hole and getting too close to the trees. You have to lay back a little from them. Another hole that comes to mind is #9 at Pacific Dunes (Bandon Dunes). First of all, you tee off to a fairway that you can barely see up on top of a hill above you. In between you and the fairway is about 150 yds of sand dunes. When you get to the top of the hill, you find out there are actually two separate fairways, and two separate greens. Hopefully you hit your ball on the fairway going toward the green in play that day.
That sounds like the second hole at Hank Haney’s Golf Ranch, a straight par 4 of about 300 yds with a line of tall trees right before the green that you have to hit over. You can actually get into trouble hitting driver on the hole and getting too close to the trees. You have to lay back a little from them.
Is that part of Stonebridge CC or does he have his own course?
Easily the "weirdest" design feature I’ve seen are these, although I wouldn’t characterize either one as "bad." Hole #1 – Cottonwood Valley CC, Irving, TX (one of the two courses used by the Byron Nelson Classic) Green is in the shape of the state of Texas. Bunker behind the green is in the shape of Oklahoma. And yes, if you come up short on your approach, your ball finds the Gulf of Mexico. Hole #17 – Appletree GC, Yakima, WA Par three hole with an island green, in the shape of a big green apple, the shape of which is quite visible from the highly elevated tee. bunker behind the green in the shape of a leaf, and the bridge leading to the green from behind appears as the "stem." Next weirdest: I forget the hole number, Covington Plantation GC, Covington, GA Par three. Green is essentially round with "sunburst" design bunkers all around it. Another par three green at Covington Plantation originally had a bunker with a bird-shaped "grass island" within the bunker. It’s been removed. In fact, the whole damn golf course closed about 18 months ago. Not sure if it ever re-opened. Worst design: Hole #4, Bobby Jones GC, Atlanta, GA Entire fairway slopes severely from right to left. Any shot hit in the fairway rolls out of bounds, where the OB boundry is only a few steps left of the cartpath bordering the left side of the fairway. The correct tee shot here is to either hit a big slice, or to hit the ball toward the trees on the right side, or to just play the ball to the 5th fairway. Hole #17, Bobby Jones, GC, Atlanta, GA The original layout of this hole was a dogleg right, with the second shot over water. That green is still there, but it’s no longer in play. After that hole, there used to be a par three 17th hole that played over water from the right. But that tee is now closed, and what used to be the 16th fairway now plays to what used to be that par three green, making for a very awkward shot to a green that wasn’t built to receive shots from the angle it now plays. You kind of have to see it. But don’t waste your money. (It’s worth noting that as bad as these two holes are, the original design of the 3rd hole was worse. The original layout had the green on the flatlands below, with the green sitting atop an elevation about 100 feet above the tee. They finally changed it years ago, but not until John Gariety included this course in his book titled, "America’s Worst Golf Courses." There are plenty of other design features that enable the course to live up (or down) to its reputation, not the least of which is the stinky sewer that runs through it. Randy Randy
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s the weirdest hole you have seen? By weird I’m not talking about challenging, but about holes with unusual design features. Most of the ones that come to my mind are either in the yardage dead zones (e.g. too long to be a par 3 and too short to be a par 4) and rely on some kind of artificial restraint, or arise from unusual geography (e.g. double dog-leg par 4’s which result from odd property boundaries.) These kinds of holes seem to be especially common on older courses in the midwest, where golf courses were often squeezed into unplanatable property on a farm and fit around buildings, creeks, and other hazards in too little space. Some of the ones that come to my mind are: a 470 yard par 5 with a 90 degree left turn 150 yards off the tee, and a big fence down the left side of the tee and beyond it to keep you from taking the shortcut (the green is only about 340 as the crow flies). Hit a monster hook though and you can get there in 2. A double dog leg par 4 which zigzags between a barn and a fenced field. You play it either by hitting a slice around zig (protected by a tree) to set you up to hit straight at the green, or hitting straight off the tee and hitting your second over the barn to cut the corner of the Zag. A 310 yard par 4 where you can carry about 290 yards of pond to go at it or hit to the side a shot of between 170 and 210 to a layup area hidden in a marsh (all you can see from the tee is the top of an aiming flag). Now a pro would consider this an intersting risk-reward short par 4, but for us mere mortals driving the thing is out of the question and hitting a blind layup is just weird. The hole invariably backs up because people can’t find their tee shots. A 180 yard par 3 that plays straight up hill to a green you can’t see — all you see is the top of a 20 foot tall flagstick which players are told to wave as they leave the unseen green. This hole is gone now, but it was infamous at the Hanover (NH) country club. It’s reason for being weird was the course was built around a ski jumping area and this hole ran from the landing area in a ravine up the side of the jumping area. The real pain was the hill is steep enough it’s hard to hit anything long enough to reach that clears it, and of course if you don’t clear the ball comes back at you. — http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery )
There are a couple of holes around here that are short par 3’s with precipitous drops from tee to green. One of them has a road behind it and houses behind that.
Theres an oddball 9 holer here with a par 3 with a big drop that can’t be more than about 80 yards You walk up to the front of the tee box and it looks like you are hitting right down on it. The green is in the middle of a big loop on a creek that goes almost all the way around it. The problem of course is figuring out how to hit anything short enough to land on the thing. (This is one of those 9 holes hacked out of land the farmer had that wasn’t suitable for farming and most of them are funky. Last time I played there I think the greens fees were about 5 bucks, and there was a box to put them in near the first tee if you wanted to play at a time there was nobody in the clubhouse.) Got to be torture living there. You hear the ball hit the road, then you wait to hear what part of your house it hits.
Not to mention driving around there. One of the things I’ve always wondered is why there aren’t more serious accidents involving golf balls and cars. One of the courses I play has 2 holes that border a very busy highway with 4 lanes of 55Mph traffic on it. The road is probably no more than 20 yards left of the fairway on the other side of a fence and some bushes, and hooks over the bushes are frequent. You can’t even see the cars through the bushes to wave a warning, not that anyone could do anything since the traffic is ususally high speed bumper-to-bumper. I’m amazed there’s never, to my knowledge at least, been a chain reaction wreck triggered by an errant tee shot hitting someone’s windshield. — http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery ) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s the weirdest hole you have seen? Every hole on any course designed by Pete Dye. –Blair "Tile roofs, too."
What’s the weirdest hole you have seen? By weird I’m not talking about challenging, but about holes with unusual design features. <snip
I played a par 4 once that had a line of tall trees completely blocking view of the green (right in front of the green). — Jim Sabatke Hire Me!! – See my resume at http://my.execpc.com/~jsabatke Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
The most fun hole I’ve seen in Atlanta is at Bobby Jones where there is a par 4 about 350 yards where the tee is elevated about 150 feet or more above the fairway which doglegs sharply to the left from the landing area. Trouble is not only can you not see the green for the tall pines and oaks blocking your view, but in the summer when the branches fill in, you have about a 15 yard gap immediately in front of the tee to shoot thru to the fairway. The regulars there know just what tree to aim at on the left to cut the corner to the green.
Metamora Country Club in Metamora MI. Can’t recall the hole #, but it’s a par 5 with OB on left and right. If you hit driver, you have to hit a WEDGE to layup for your 2nd shot, then you still have about 150-170 over the water. You cannot see the water from the tee box.
The 11th at Crowbush in PEI, Canada is like that. The last time I played there, I hit driver, PW, driver and two putts for par. Bruce Bruce E. Newman * Fredericton, NB, Canada http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=newmanb info at benewman dot bizland dot com * http://go.to/bruce_newman
What’s the weirdest hole you have seen?
Every hole on any course designed by Pete Dye. There are a couple of holes around here that are short par 3’s with precipitous drops from tee to green. One of them has a road behind it and houses behind that. Got to be torture living there. You hear the ball hit the road, then you wait to hear what part of your house it hits. –Blair "Tile roofs, too."
What’s the weirdest hole you have seen? By weird I’m not talking about challenging, but about holes with unusual design features. Most of the ones that come to my mind are either in the yardage dead zones (e.g. too long to be a par 3 and too short to be a par 4) and rely on some kind of artificial restraint, or arise from unusual geography (e.g. double dog-leg par 4’s which result from odd property boundaries.) These kinds of holes seem to be especially common on older courses in the midwest, where golf courses were often squeezed into unplanatable property on a farm and fit around buildings, creeks, and other hazards in too little space. Some of the ones that come to my mind are:
Played a course once where your tee shot went over the driveway into the parking lot. Maybe 20 or 30 yards between the tee and the driveway, slightly uphill. I of course did not get the ball off of the ground, it hits the curb and me and my playing partner lose sight of it. A couple of seconds later we hear it land 10 yards behind us. My playing partner goes to tee off to which I reply, its not your shot, I am away. Steve
i played a hole where ur drive had to be about 100 yards and then there was a 180* turn and you were hitting for the green. between the tee and green there was lots of trees, no hope to get over
http://www.meadowsfarms.com/golf/watrfall.htm Check out number 8. It’s made to look like you are hitting to a baseall diamond. It’s plenty weird. Kenny
Interesting course! Especially that 841 yard par 6 on Longest Hole Nine. Looks like a fun place. Dan
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.meadowsfarms.com/golf/watrfall.htm Check out number 8. It’s made to look like you are hitting to a baseall diamond. It’s plenty weird. Kenny Interesting course! Especially that 841 yard par 6 on Longest Hole Nine. Looks like a fun place. Dan
The Waterfall hole is fun too. It’s a par 3 where you hit up over a waterfall to the green. After you tee off, you drive the cart behind the waterfall where there used to be a snack bar so you could get a hot dog and beer on the way to the green. I read that they finally closed it down because the staff complained it was too spooky to work there – it was like working in a cave. Kenny — Kenny Stultz – Troll and SPAM intolerant RSG Rollcall: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=stultzk "Golf is the only sport where a precise knowledge of the Rules can earn one a reputation for bad sportsmanship"
What’s the weirdest hole you have seen? By weird I’m not talking about challenging, but about holes with unusual design features.
There is a short 9 hole course, par 32, on the OR. coast where on the last hole, its a 210 yard par 4 from the whites and 225 par3 from the blues. Steve
jackson hole, wyoming.<s mnhj the course you describe – sounds quaint, and proves that where there is a will, there is a way. seriously, a par 3 14th at coeur d’alene (Idaho) resort. It floats in lake coeur d’ alene. the yardage changes daily, as the green moves in, and out. I think I saw some time back, where Carl Paul the founder of Golfsmith Int’l – aced it. What’s the weirdest hole you have seen?
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Has anyone received confirmation about the Ryder Cup ticket drawing?
So far have not heard anything– it was supposed to be confirmed by email today.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone received confirmation about the Ryder Cup ticket drawing?
So far have not heard anything– it was supposed to be confirmed by email today. Has anyone received confirmation about the Ryder Cup ticket drawing?
Yep. I haven’t heard a thing yet. I searched online including the Ryder Cup website, and can’t find any update on the drawing or notification
Has anyone received confirmation about the Ryder Cup ticket drawing?
Got an email this moring — denied. — John Pflum, Jr. 2002 RSG-Cincinnati Champion Email: jpflumjr at cincii dot rr dot com
Has anyone received confirmation about the Ryder Cup ticket drawing?
I just received an email from them…bad news (see below): Dear Sir or Madam: The PGA of America performed The 2004 Ryder Cup tickets random drawing on September 30th, 2003. Unfortunately your application was not selected. However, if you would still like to attend the Matches, we have listed other options that remain available at this time. Corporate hospitality packages are available! Click Here for information Premier Golf, the Official Travel Company of the PGA of America, offers all-inclusive packages to the 2004 Ryder Cup Matches. They still have a limited number of packages remaining. Packages include: three or four night
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good site, but you have to know the city name which might be the mailing address. Often the mailing address city is not the city or town where the course is located. County search would be helpful. I just wanted to suggest the site Golfable.com for finding golf courses. It has more than 17,000 golf courses throughout the United States with full details, description, and contact information for each course. It’s searchable by location, name, type of course, and price. http://www.golfable.com/ Yes, you have to know the city if you want to search for it. You can use the browse by state feature and look at the list of cities. I am currently working on developing a feature for the site where you can enter your zip code and select a radius and have it display all golf courses in the range. Do you think that would be a worthwhile addition to the site? I only looked at one course (I’m in Canada) Alabama-Enterprise- Enterprise Country Club, where I played as a guest while on a business trip some 10 years ago. Is there no link to their website, if they have one ? Is the description "Even though this course features tree-lined fairways, they do afford generous landing areas. The large greens are fast, and there is a lake that comes into play on a couple of holes. The terrain varies between rolling and hilly, so be prepared for some interesting lies in the fairways." yours or theirs ?? A lot of the descriptions came from various sources. The one you’re referring to I did not write myself. But surely a link to their own website would enhance your site ??
I agree, and that’s something that I’ll work on in the future. It will take a lot of time to do, but I’ll probably start on it slowly.
17,000 golf courses, huh? That website will be extremely useful for locating large groups of assholes, when you need some.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good site, but you have to know the city name which might be the mailing address. Often the mailing address city is not the city or town where the course is located. County search would be helpful. I just wanted to suggest the site Golfable.com for finding golf courses. It has more than 17,000 golf courses throughout the United States with full details, description, and contact information for each course. It’s searchable by location, name, type of course, and price. http://www.golfable.com/ Yes, you have to know the city if you want to search for it. You can use the browse by state feature and look at the list of cities. I am currently working on developing a feature for the site where you can enter your zip code and select a radius and have it display all golf courses in the range. Do you think that would be a worthwhile addition to the site? I only looked at one course (I’m in Canada) Alabama-Enterprise- Enterprise Country Club, where I played as a guest while on a business trip some 10 years ago. Is there no link to their website, if they have one ? Is the description "Even though this course features tree-lined fairways, they do afford generous landing areas. The large greens are fast, and there is a lake that comes into play on a couple of holes. The terrain varies between rolling and hilly, so be prepared for some interesting lies in the fairways." yours or theirs ?? A lot of the descriptions came from various sources. The one you’re referring to I did not write myself.
But surely a link to their own website would enhance your site ??
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good site, but you have to know the city name which might be the mailing address. Often the mailing address city is not the city or town where the course is located. County search would be helpful. I just wanted to suggest the site Golfable.com for finding golf courses. It has more than 17,000 golf courses throughout the United States with full details, description, and contact information for each course. It’s searchable by location, name, type of course, and price. http://www.golfable.com/ Yes, you have to know the city if you want to search for it. You can use the browse by state feature and look at the list of cities. I am currently working on developing a feature for the site where you can enter your zip code and select a radius and have it display all golf courses in the range. Do you think that would be a worthwhile addition to the site? I only looked at one course (I’m in Canada) Alabama-Enterprise- Enterprise Country Club, where I played as a guest while on a business trip some 10 years ago. Is there no link to their website, if they have one ? Is the description "Even though this course features tree-lined fairways, they do afford generous landing areas. The large greens are fast, and there is a lake that comes into play on a couple of holes. The terrain varies between rolling and hilly, so be prepared for some interesting lies in the fairways." yours or theirs ??
A lot of the descriptions came from various sources. The one you’re referring to I did not write myself.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good site, but you have to know the city name which might be the mailing address. Often the mailing address city is not the city or town where the course is located. County search would be helpful. I just wanted to suggest the site Golfable.com for finding golf courses. It has more than 17,000 golf courses throughout the United States with full details, description, and contact information for each course. It’s searchable by location, name, type of course, and price. http://www.golfable.com/ Yes, you have to know the city if you want to search for it. You can use the browse by state feature and look at the list of cities. I am currently working on developing a feature for the site where you can enter your zip code and select a radius and have it display all golf courses in the range. Do you think that would be a worthwhile addition to the site?
I only looked at one course (I’m in Canada) Alabama-Enterprise- Enterprise Country Club, where I played as a guest while on a business trip some 10 years ago. Is there no link to their website, if they have one ? Is the description "Even though this course features tree-lined fairways, they do afford generous landing areas. The large greens are fast, and there is a lake that comes into play on a couple of holes. The terrain varies between rolling and hilly, so be prepared for some interesting lies in the fairways." yours or theirs ??
Good site, but you have to know the city name which might be the mailing address. Often the mailing address city is not the city or town where the course is located. County search would be helpful.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just wanted to suggest the site Golfable.com for finding golf courses. It has more than 17,000 golf courses throughout the United States with full details, description, and contact information for each course. It’s searchable by location, name, type of course, and price. http://www.golfable.com/
Good site, but you have to know the city name which might be the mailing address. Often the mailing address city is not the city or town where the course is located. County search would be helpful. I just wanted to suggest the site Golfable.com for finding golf courses. It has more than 17,000 golf courses throughout the United States with full details, description, and contact information for each course. It’s searchable by location, name, type of course, and price. http://www.golfable.com/
Yes, you have to know the city if you want to search for it. You can use the browse by state feature and look at the list of cities. I am currently working on developing a feature for the site where you can enter your zip code and select a radius and have it display all golf courses in the range. Do you think that would be a worthwhile addition to the site?
I just wanted to suggest the site Golfable.com for finding golf courses. It has more than 17,000 golf courses throughout the United States with full details, description, and contact information for each course. It’s searchable by location, name, type of course, and price. http://www.golfable.com/
I just wanted to suggest the site Golfable.com for finding golf courses. It has more than 17,000 golf courses throughout the United States with full details, description, and contact information for each course. It’s searchable by location, name, type of course, and price. http://www.golfable.com/
Thanks! Here are a couple of others: http://www.mygolf.com/golf/courses/ http://www.golfcourse.com/
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – for an 18th hole would make a really exciting Sunday afternoon finish, dont you think? i don’t think the current tour courses have this type of hole as the 18th. a shame really. maybe they shoulda shortened the 18 at augusta rather than lengthening it. I don’t know about Augusta, but sometimes, sure it would be great to see. Having long hard par 4 finishing holes ALL THE TIME gets pretty boring. Slightly off the topic but still appropriate, the Riverside Country Club in Saint John, NB has a difficult par 3 as its finishing hole…about 205 yards and sharply downhill, maybe 60 feet or so. There is OB left and fairly close to the green and huge, mature trees right. On top of this, the green is canted toward the tee making for steep sides and a nearly impossible recovery from behind. The surface has strong undulations, so three-putts come into play. As you can imagine, there are more bogeys here than pars and this hole has decided many matches. This is an unusual finish and I’ve always liked it for that reason. Saint John’s Darren Ritchie beat Mike Weir in a playoff here to win the 1992 Canadian Amateur. Bruce
Not sure if you remember, Bruce, but at Kingsville GC the finishing hole on each of the original 9’s are par three’s. The current Canadian Amateur Champion, Richard Scott, plays out of Kingsville. David
for an 18th hole would make a really exciting Sunday afternoon finish, dont you think? i don’t think the current tour courses have this type of hole as the 18th. a shame really. maybe they shoulda shortened the 18 at augusta rather than lengthening it.
A club I used to belong to has a ’short driveable par 4′ at the 18th….unfortunately it is on the card as a ‘par 3′ !! — cheers david "Somewhere in the world a village is missing an idiot!" - McCord SPAM-FIX. The owner of privacy.net has given permission to use this address for the purpose of protection from spam. If you want to contact me send to dsantwyk<ATbigpond<DOTnet<DOTau…thankyou!
I don’t know about Augusta, but sometimes, sure it would be great to see. Having long hard par 4 finishing holes ALL THE TIME gets pretty boring.
The US Open at Congressional has a par 3 18th (180-ish?). The US Open/TOUR Championship at Olympic Club in 1998 had a fairly short par 4 for it’s 18th…….340-360. But it was downhill then uphill to a very undulating green. I don’t know of any other short/quirky finishing holes. — Washington State University "That shot is impossible!…Jack Nicholson himself couldn’t make it!"– Homer Simpson
for an 18th hole would make a really exciting Sunday afternoon finish, dont you think? i don’t think the current tour courses have this type of hole as the 18th. a shame really. maybe they shoulda shortened the 18 at augusta rather than lengthening it.
I don’t know about Augusta, but sometimes, sure it would be great to see. Having long hard par 4 finishing holes ALL THE TIME gets pretty boring.
for an 18th hole would make a really exciting Sunday afternoon finish, dont you think? i don’t think the current tour courses have this type of hole as the 18th. a shame really. maybe they shoulda shortened the 18 at augusta rather than lengthening it. I don’t know about Augusta, but sometimes, sure it would be great to see. Having long hard par 4 finishing holes ALL THE TIME gets pretty boring.
Slightly off the topic but still appropriate, the Riverside Country Club in Saint John, NB has a difficult par 3 as its finishing hole…about 205 yards and sharply downhill, maybe 60 feet or so. There is OB left and fairly close to the green and huge, mature trees right. On top of this, the green is canted toward the tee making for steep sides and a nearly impossible recovery from behind. The surface has strong undulations, so three-putts come into play. As you can imagine, there are more bogeys here than pars and this hole has decided many matches. This is an unusual finish and I’ve always liked it for that reason. Saint John’s Darren Ritchie beat Mike Weir in a playoff here to win the 1992 Canadian Amateur. Bruce Bruce E. Newman * Fredericton, NB, Canada http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=newmanb info at benewman dot bizland dot com * http://go.to/bruce_newman
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to see a bigger difference between the US Open and the PGA championship, but it isn’t obvious to me how this should be done. You can have different flavors (I love The International), testing different skills. Maybe one major should be designed to reward gamblers. That’s what Augusta basically is. Jack Nicklaus has said that the most exciting shot in golf is the recovery shot. I don’t really mind them lengthening the course…..I think length is overated long or short. But I don’t like the rough and the over abundance of trees. Augusta is the ultimate gamblers course ’cause if you miss in the wrong part of the green you are screwed. I wish ANGC had some sort of driveable par 4 though. It really would have been interesting to see them, while lengthening most of the holes, they actually gained some of the space needed by *shortening* 1 or 2 of the par 4s…….14 or 17 for example. I know the one Tiger tried to drive on Sunday (#3 or 4?) is fairly short, but it’s probably the only one. Most are over 430 now, not long by any means, but not driveable. — Washington State University "That shot is impossible!…Jack Nicholson himself couldn’t make it!"– Homer Simpson
most tour courses have a ‘difficult’-ish 18, I think this is purposely to create drama. designers tend not to think outside the box and go for a short par 4 18th. hard to think people like Nicklaus, Norman, Player et al overlooked this alternative when designing. must be a reason, no?
I want to see a bigger difference between the US Open and the PGA championship, but it isn’t obvious to me how this should be done. You can have different flavors (I love The International), testing different skills. Maybe one major should be designed to reward gamblers.
That’s what Augusta basically is. Jack Nicklaus has said that the most exciting shot in golf is the recovery shot. I don’t really mind them lengthening the course…..I think length is overated long or short. But I don’t like the rough and the over abundance of trees. Augusta is the ultimate gamblers course ’cause if you miss in the wrong part of the green you are screwed. I wish ANGC had some sort of driveable par 4 though. It really would have been interesting to see them, while lengthening most of the holes, they actually gained some of the space needed by *shortening* 1 or 2 of the par 4s…….14 or 17 for example. I know the one Tiger tried to drive on Sunday (#3 or 4?) is fairly short, but it’s probably the only one. Most are over 430 now, not long by any means, but not driveable. — Washington State University "That shot is impossible!…Jack Nicholson himself couldn’t make it!"– Homer Simpson
for an 18th hole would make a really exciting Sunday afternoon finish, dont you think? i don’t think the current tour courses have this type of hole as the 18th. a shame really. maybe they shoulda shortened the 18 at augusta rather than lengthening it.
It could be fun. I think they lengthened Augusta National to make it more unique among the majors. Hitting to the fairway is relatively easy, so it wanted to reward long hitters. (Tiger proof, my ass). I want to see a bigger difference between the US Open and the PGA championship, but it isn’t obvious to me how this should be done. You can have different flavors (I love The International), testing different skills. Maybe one major should be designed to reward gamblers.
for an 18th hole would make a really exciting Sunday afternoon finish, dont you think? i don’t think the current tour courses have this type of hole as the 18th. a shame really. maybe they shoulda shortened the 18 at augusta rather than lengthening it.
St Andrews has one and thats the home of golf. <ducks
it would be exciting that’s for sure… Desi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – for an 18th hole would make a really exciting Sunday afternoon finish, dont you think? i don’t think the current tour courses have this type of hole as the 18th. a shame really. maybe they shoulda shortened the 18 at augusta rather than lengthening it.
for an 18th hole would make a really exciting Sunday afternoon finish, dont you think? i don’t think the current tour courses have this type of hole as the 18th. a shame really. maybe they shoulda shortened the 18 at augusta rather than lengthening it. St Andrews has one and thats the home of golf. <ducks
I think what you are looking for on the last 3 or so holes is a layout where birdie and bogey are the most likely scores (and in about equal numbers)… if that is possible. This can lead to drastic last minute lead changes… drama… suspense, etc.
for an 18th hole would make a really exciting Sunday afternoon finish, dont you think? i don’t think the current tour courses have this type of hole as the 18th. a shame really. maybe they shoulda shortened the 18 at augusta rather than lengthening it.
The statute of limitations for Azinger’s breach of 17-2b would be the Close of Competition provided he remained ignorant of the breach until after that time.
Thank you. I wonder how many of the people here, saying that Azinger’s (and/or his caddie’s) ignorance of the written rules should be overlooked if an official doesn’t catch it on the spot, are the same ones who last month said that if a 13-year old amateur didn’t know every nuance of the unwritten etiquette traditions, she had no business playing? I don’t remember anyone in this thread saying that…what I said, and meant, is that it’s unfair to have TV viewers calling penalties on pro golfers. Period. If Zinger or his caddie had known that they had broken a rule I have no doubt that they would have called the penalty themselves. The case in question was so obscure, and happened so quickly, that I could see where they, or anyone else in close proximity, would not have know that they had broken a rule. That’s not "ignorance of the written rules" by those in attendance IMO. Dave (the other one)
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The statute of limitations for Azinger’s breach of 17-2b would be the Close of Competition provided he remained ignorant of the breach until after that time. Thank you. I wonder how many of the people here, saying that Azinger’s (and/or his caddie’s) ignorance of the written rules should be overlooked if an official doesn’t catch it on the spot, are the same ones who last month said that if a 13-year old amateur didn’t know every nuance of the unwritten etiquette traditions, she had no business playing? I don’t remember anyone in this thread saying that…what I said, and meant, is that it’s unfair to have TV viewers calling penalties on pro golfers.
I agree. Only the players. caddies, or officials should call penalties. But viewers should be able to bring possible infractions to the attention of the officials. You either play by the rules, or you don’t. Period. If Zinger or his caddie had known that they had broken a rule I have no doubt that they would have called the penalty themselves.
I agree. In other words, they were ignorant of the rules. There are only three possible reasons that they didn’t call the penalty on themselves. a) they cheated b) they thought the ball had stopped moving before the flagstick was removed c) they were ignorant of the applicable rule It’s possible that Zinger didn’t notice what happened, but it is impossible that his caddie did not see the ball moving while he was removing the flagstick, unless your defense of him is that he is totally incompetent. You are therefore correct in pointing out that if he was not ignorant of the rule, he was dishonest in not calling the penalty himself. The case in question was so obscure, and happened so quickly, that I could see where they, or anyone else in close proximity, would not have know that they had broken a rule. That’s not "ignorance of the written rules" by those in attendance IMO.
You must be using a different dictionary. What is ignorance of the rules, if it’s not being aware of what happened, but unaware that it was a violation? The obscurity of the rule makes it more likely, not less, that they were ignorant of it. The speed with which it happened is irrelevant, but as a matter of fact, it took longer for the ball to stop moving after the flagstick was removed than it did for Waldorf to tap down the divot in front of him, or for a double hit, or for a ball to ricochet off a bunker face and hit a player, or for Mickelson’s ball to move from the wind after he addressed it..
It’s possible that Zinger didn’t notice what happened, but it is impossible that his caddie did not see the ball moving while he was removing the flagstick,
It’s highly possible. I’ve seen the video, and it appeared as if he was looking at the flagstick, not the ball.
If the people at the time missed the call, they missed it. You let it go. No DQ, no penalty. You don’t see the NFL changing a score because some dufus saw holding on a play and called it in.
You don’t see NFL players calling penalties on themselves, either. NFL players deliberately break the rules as much as they think they can without getting ejected, and consider it worth the risk if they only get caught part of the time. Is that how you want PGA golf to be?
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – if these conditions aren’t met, then it’s totally inappropriate for any and all TV fan interaction with tournament golf rulings. Am I the only one who heard Kendra Graham point out that if the viewer had not called in, and Zinger had signed an incorrect score, he would have been DQ’d? so be it. But how would they have known? I bet what Zinger’s caddy did happens all the time. They just happened to show this time on TV. How’s that fair? It’s fair because he followed the rules. What isn’t fair is when people get away with breaking the rules because they are off camera. Whether the rules always makes sense is a separate question. As for how they would have known, it was a pretty good shot, so maybe it would have been replayed on some sports show or the Golf Channel. The question then becomes, what is the statute of limitations? Kendra Graham implied that if an official had noticed it on TV that evening, Zinger would have been DQ’d. Would they DQ him after the tournament was over? Would they DQ him if someone noticed it on a highlight reel two years later? Anyone know?
See Rule 34-1b for the penalties that may be imposed after the Close of Competition. The statute of limitations for Azinger’s breach of 17-2b would be the Close of Competition provided he remained ignorant of the breach until after that time. — http://rec-sport-golf.com/?rc=hayesd
The statute of limitations for Azinger’s breach of 17-2b would be the Close of Competition provided he remained ignorant of the breach until after that time.
Thank you. I wonder how many of the people here, saying that Azinger’s (and/or his caddie’s) ignorance of the written rules should be overlooked if an official doesn’t catch it on the spot, are the same ones who last month said that if a 13-year old amateur didn’t know every nuance of the unwritten etiquette traditions, she had no business playing?
suppose the "occurrence" (pole removal) had of run it’s full course, what could have been the most damaging event?
In addtion to any help you get here, I would suggest posting to forums at golfsmith.com, dynacraftgolf.com, golfworks.com, and then find the shoptalk forum which I know is linked from somewhere at clubmaker-online.com. -Don M — Please reply to the newsgroup. This address is set up for spam control and I do not download any of its mail. Thanks again!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hope I am not out of place here…I have searched quite a bit about some business questions pertaining to golf club repairs. This NG (rec.sports.golf) is the closest I could find. I would like to get some feedback from ANYONE who is doing some repairs for a golf club, course, driving range, etc…Basically, has anyone been hired by one of these establishments to do work for them? I have an opportunity to get my "foot in the door" on a new country club being built locally. I asked the owner/developer if he had thought about who will do his repairs. He had not even considered it. Needless to say, I am his man. I have got somewhat of a pricing structure that I want to achieve (based on averages from local & website locations), however, I am not sure about the internal logistics of how I should approach this club owner with a plan that will suit both him and me. I have a very successfull full-time salary job at the moment and I am not looking to leave that. I do some part-time repairs and clubmaking on the side. All of this is done from my garage. Is there anyone out there who has been in this situation or who can point me in the right direction for some guidance? I will once again apologize in advance if this is the wrong NG to post. Just curious. Feel free to email with a reply (or post)…I check daily…Thanks A Million… -Mike
Hope I am not out of place here…I have searched quite a bit about some business questions pertaining to golf club repairs. This NG (rec.sports.golf) is the closest I could find. I would like to get some feedback from ANYONE who is doing some repairs for a golf club, course, driving range, etc…Basically, has anyone been hired by one of these establishments to do work for them? I have an opportunity to get my "foot in the door" on a new country club being built locally. I asked the owner/developer if he had thought about who will do his repairs. He had not even considered it. Needless to say, I am his man. I have got somewhat of a pricing structure that I want to achieve (based on averages from local & website locations), however, I am not sure about the internal logistics of how I should approach this club owner with a plan that will suit both him and me. I have a very successfull full-time salary job at the moment and I am not looking to leave that. I do some part-time repairs and clubmaking on the side. All of this is done from my garage. Is there anyone out there who has been in this situation or who can point me in the right direction for some guidance? I will once again apologize in advance if this is the wrong NG to post. Just curious. Feel free to email with a reply (or post)…I check daily…Thanks A Million… -Mike
Wonderful story about your Dad. I enjoyed it.
Thanks for indulging me in my moment of nostalgia. My dad was my girlhood hero in many ways. Skaneateles is just right down the road (about 40 minutes).
No kidding!!! I used to work with a Hinman that grew up in the country near Jordan.
Could be a relative. I have to pursue that side of the family genealogy sometime. When I was about 7, we visited Skaneateles to see my dad’s cousins (I think it was). I remember going to the lake itself in the afternoon for a swim. My little brother, then 2, ran STRAIGHT to the water in his delight! and he kept going and going until, splash, he fell face-forward and went under. I remember my dad racing in, faster than lightning, and grabbing my brother by the ankles and holding him upside down to "drain" him. It was scary then and funny to remember now. (espec. since my baby brother is now 6′4"!) Well, if I ever go back to visit the family ancestral home, I know whom to call for a visit, gt. :-) I am one of these self made golfers.
The best kind! My attribute in baseball was speed and quickness. A formula for disaster in golf.
LOL! Yeah, you don’t want to rush things too much in golf. (Watching professional golf *is* kind of like watching grass grow!) Have fun on the links. Remember to keep your head down and follow through! xxoo Anne — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
gt: http://www.s-t.com/daily/06-96/06-20-96/d01sp119.htm This is a better copy of the article about my dad and golfing, complete with a nice pic. It was written in June ‘96. Three years later, he could no longer play golf due to his increasing dementia, and I knew that his life was essentially over… the game was his biggest passion. xxoo Anne
Dear Anne, I printed this for my husband to read. Your dad was an inspiration. I can tell you are proud!!! Love, Vicki — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
I printed this for my husband to read. Your dad was an inspiration. I can tell you are proud!!!
Vicki, how nice. Thanks! xxoo Anne — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wonderful story about your Dad. I enjoyed it. Thanks for indulging me in my moment of nostalgia. My dad was my girlhood hero in many ways. Skaneateles is just right down the road (about 40 minutes). No kidding!!! I used to work with a Hinman that grew up in the country near Jordan. Could be a relative. I have to pursue that side of the family genealogy sometime. When I was about 7, we visited Skaneateles to see my dad’s cousins (I think it was). I remember going to the lake itself in the afternoon for a swim. My little brother, then 2, ran STRAIGHT to the water in his delight! and he kept going and going until, splash, he fell face-forward and went under. I remember my dad racing in, faster than lightning, and grabbing my brother by the ankles and holding him upside down to "drain" him. It was scary then and funny to remember now. (espec. since my baby brother is now 6′4"!) Well, if I ever go back to visit the family ancestral home, I know whom to call for a visit, gt. :-) I am one of these self made golfers. The best kind! My attribute in baseball was speed and quickness. A formula for disaster in golf. LOL! Yeah, you don’t want to rush things too much in golf. (Watching professional golf *is* kind of like watching grass grow!) Have fun on the links. Remember to keep your head down and follow through! xxoo Anne — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Proud daughter Anne, I would feel honored to escort you and yours down the streets of the greater metropolis of Skaneateles. It is a preppy little town with quite a bit of money in it. Consequently, there are several restaurants that your plate is prettier than it tastes. On the other hand, Doug’s fish fry is there. Good old fish, fries and a dallop of grease here and there. Cheap and good. The normal people eat there. I have not been to Skaneateles in about a year. There was a great little dive of a biker bar. It is one of the most amazing places I have ever been in. Not for the run down falling down around you building. You could be in there talking to an unemployed laboror, a group of ten Harley folks could come in (some were literally hogs and some were Doctors and lawyers), and a 50 year old guy would pull up out front driving a BMW (and come in and sit and shoot the stuff with the unemployed laboror). I think the name was Miller’s. My wife bought her sewing machine in Skaneateles (Bernina). For about two years, we went down there on most every Sunday for a sewing club meeting. Guess where I stayed for the two hour meeting. The Sunday bartender was a 60 year old biker. Tatoos and all of that stuff. Did he fit the sterotype? Well maybe for Skaneateles. He had a masters degree in some sort of high faluting literture stuff. He would not drink beer. He loved his Hennesy Brandy or Cognac (probably didn’t spell that right, I don’t even know if it was brandy or cognac). I have heard that they have torn the cornor down that the bar was on and something else is coming in. A piece of history is gone. Seriously, it is a neat little town/hamlet. They have one stoplight in town and one on the east coming in and one on the west going out, if I recall correctly. Willy Clinton and Hillary stayed in one of the mansions on the lake (there are many) when she was campaigning for senator. It was loaned from a local. Lots of money in that little town. It is a small town. There is not a lot there other than the lake and mansions and money and the country club. Go five miles in any direction and you are in country and farms. Go, maybe 25 miles (guess) east and you are in Syracuse. Go 40 miles north and you are at Lake Ontario and near my house. Sorry to possibly bore you, but I got the feeling that you were not familiar with the "diversity" of Skaneateles. It is a neat little town, it really is. I would think that it was a great place for your Dad to grow up in. Take care Anne, gt — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
…The actual town part was originally regular folks.
That would have been my relatives, I’m sure. We have absolutely no history of wealth on either my mom’s or dad’s side. (And the current generation is upholding that proud tradition! LOL) … towns people dress up in Victorian period costume and walk around the two or three block (small blocks, linear not square) business district.
Good heavens. How quaint! Is this a tourist attraction? Or just cabin fever leading to inspiration? :-D xxoo Anne — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – gt: http://www.s-t.com/daily/06-96/06-20-96/d01sp119.htm This is a better copy of the article about my dad and golfing, complete with a nice pic. It was written in June ‘96. Three years later, he could no longer play golf due to his increasing dementia, and I knew that his life was essentially over… the game was his biggest passion. xxoo Anne Dear Anne, I printed this for my husband to read. Your dad was an inspiration. I can tell you are proud!!! Love, Vicki — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm Vicki, Be careful about encouraging your husband to play golf. It can be addictive. You may never see him on weekends again. gt It’s okay, GT, I encourage him because he enjoys it. He actually wants me to take up the sport. I am not very interested!!! I tried to swing one of his clubs the other day and the top of it pinched the inside of my forearm and left a nasty bruise. LOL I don’t think I am cut out for golf. Love, Vicki —
LOL. Yes, some people are challenged by heavy equipment. There is probably a caution for that on your meds. LY, gt — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …The actual town part was originally regular folks. That would have been my relatives, I’m sure. We have absolutely no history of wealth on either my mom’s or dad’s side. (And the current generation is upholding that proud tradition! LOL) … towns people dress up in Victorian period costume and walk around the two or three block (small blocks, linear not square) business district. Good heavens. How quaint! Is this a tourist attraction? Or just cabin fever leading to inspiration? :-D xxoo Anne — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
It is advertised on a low key. Their intent is to get shoppers in the boutiques and diners in the restaurants. It just fits my image of the town. gt — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – gt: http://www.s-t.com/daily/06-96/06-20-96/d01sp119.htm This is a better copy of the article about my dad and golfing, complete with a nice pic. It was written in June ‘96. Three years later, he could no longer play golf due to his increasing dementia, and I knew that his life was essentially over… the game was his biggest passion. xxoo Anne Dear Anne, I printed this for my husband to read. Your dad was an inspiration. I can tell you are proud!!! Love, Vicki — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm Vicki, Be careful about encouraging your husband to play golf. It can be addictive. You may never see him on weekends again. gt
It’s okay, GT, I encourage him because he enjoys it. He actually wants me to take up the sport. I am not very interested!!! I tried to swing one of his clubs the other day and the top of it pinched the inside of my forearm and left a nasty bruise. LOL I don’t think I am cut out for golf. Love, Vicki — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – gt: http://www.s-t.com/daily/06-96/06-20-96/d01sp119.htm This is a better copy of the article about my dad and golfing, complete with a nice pic. It was written in June ‘96. Three years later, he could no longer play golf due to his increasing dementia, and I knew that his life was essentially over… the game was his biggest passion. xxoo Anne Dear Anne, I printed this for my husband to read. Your dad was an inspiration. I can tell you are proud!!! Love, Vicki — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Vicki, Be careful about encouraging your husband to play golf. It can be addictive. You may never see him on weekends again. gt — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … Skaneateles. It is a preppy little town with quite a bit of money in it. Wow! Now that surprises me. I don’t remember anything from our visit that would have suggested "preppy" at the time (this was c. 1959), and my dad’s family was strictly middle class. Very interesting! … Go, maybe 25 miles (guess) east and you are in Syracuse. Ahh, maybe that helps explain the preppy/overeducated factor? It’s become a bedroom community of Syracuse, a biggish college town? Sorry to possibly bore you, but I got the feeling that you were not familiar with the "diversity" of Skaneateles. Not boring at all, and I had no idea… I still thought of it as the sleepy place we visited long ago. Love the biker-bar tales! Did they allow women inside? :-) Thanks for the "picture" of my dad’s original hometown, gt. When he was about 12, my grandparents split and grandma moved with her two boys to a very small town in Connecticut to *her* family’s ancestral house, and that’s where Dad finished his growing-up…. I knew the Conn. hometown well, as we visited my grandma and cousins there frequently, but I think we only stopped once or twice in Skaneateles. I correspond a couple of times a year with an ancient second cousin of dad’s who was from Skan.; she is in an assisted living home in Syracuse now… a bright and funny lady. xxoo Anne —
Anne, Oh yes, they allowed women in the bar. All shapes, sizes and levels of breeding. The gambit, from scary to eye candy. I would think that in 1959 the only people that had disposable income were the rich. The rich mostly lived along the east and west shore of the lake. Some of these old houses/mansions are impressive. The actual town part was originally regular folks. I think preppy wasn’t invented in 1959. You cannot be preppy without some money. To give you another example of the preppy atmosphere, at Christmas season, the half dozen or so, towns people dress up in Victorian period costume and walk around the two or three block (small blocks, linear not square) business district. It is not surprising to meet Ebenezer Scrooge at the corner waiting to cross the street. They organize this and have shift schedules on the weekends. Take care lady, gt — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
… Skaneateles. It is a preppy little town with quite a bit of money in it.
Wow! Now that surprises me. I don’t remember anything from our visit that would have suggested "preppy" at the time (this was c. 1959), and my dad’s family was strictly middle class. Very interesting! … Go, maybe 25 miles (guess) east and you are in Syracuse.
Ahh, maybe that helps explain the preppy/overeducated factor? It’s become a bedroom community of Syracuse, a biggish college town? Sorry to possibly bore you, but I got the feeling that you were not familiar with the "diversity" of Skaneateles.
Not boring at all, and I had no idea… I still thought of it as the sleepy place we visited long ago. Love the biker-bar tales! Did they allow women inside? :-) Thanks for the "picture" of my dad’s original hometown, gt. When he was about 12, my grandparents split and grandma moved with her two boys to a very small town in Connecticut to *her* family’s ancestral house, and that’s where Dad finished his growing-up…. I knew the Conn. hometown well, as we visited my grandma and cousins there frequently, but I think we only stopped once or twice in Skaneateles. I correspond a couple of times a year with an ancient second cousin of dad’s who was from Skan.; she is in an assisted living home in Syracuse now… a bright and funny lady. xxoo Anne — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
http://www.s-t.com/daily/06-96/06-20-96/d01sp119.htm
Proud daughter, Good stuff. gt — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – gt: http://www.s-t.com/daily/06-96/06-20-96/d01sp119.htm This is a better copy of the article about my dad and golfing, complete with a nice pic. It was written in June ‘96. Three years later, he could no longer play golf due to his increasing dementia, and I knew that his life was essentially over… the game was his biggest passion. xxoo Anne — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Proud Daughter Anne, Look at my above answer to your post. Evidently, I was composing when you were posting the second URL. Please read it. One, I was nice. Two I may know one of your Hinman realtives. He grew up, something like five miles from Skaneateles. He is probably in the vicinty of 40 years old now. gt — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Was just wondering. My husband is a new avid golfer, himself. I know you haven’t been sleeping well. Wondered how you did. Love, Vicki Amazing! I just signed on to tell about our golf tournament. I appreciate you asking Vicki. Background. I would normally average around a 9 handicap. This year, since I have been defective, my concentration went out of the window and I am running around a 17 handicap. My partner is about a 25 handicap. For those of you that don’t play golf, I am shooting in the low 90’s instead of the low 80’s on 18 holes. We finished the league in the bottom 25%. Leagues are two person teams. Today was our league ending tournament. We played two man best ball. This means that we record the best score between my partner and myself. We played on a different course, a private country club. It is long and quite tight. Distance is needed, but accuracy is more important. The tourney. I played, my as of late, poor for 5 holes. With the issues that I have been having, I have tried to be mellow and slow down and concentrate on good contact. It obviously hasn’t worked. On the next tee, I told Rick that I was f…ing tired of trying to compensate for my ills and that I was going back to my big swing. He said, something to the effect of it is about f…ing time. Hit the f…ing ball. I cranked a 285 yard drive off of that tee, down the middle. I continued to play well for the last 13 holes. The guys that we were playing with are new in the league this year. They have only seen me play poorly. After a few holes, they asked, "Who is this guy?" We ended up finishing in the money, in fourth place. That was with the first five crappy holes. Not something to write home about in it’s own right, but a celebration for us. We were pleased! Take care. LY, gt Sounds like you enjoyed yourself! That is wonderful! Here’s hopes you slept well last night!! :) Love, Vicki —
Vicki, Okay, I was stirring around until about 0200 am. Slept fine from there for about 5 hours. LY, gt — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
We ended up finishing in the money, in fourth place.
gt: This is excellent! I am very excited for you — especially to do so well after playing poorly for a bit. Is golf relaxing for you? It’s a nice quiet sport, compared to loud team sports, and all that walking around is good for the soul, I’d think. My late dad was a golf "addict" all his life and was very good — a 1 to 3 handicap when he was in his prime. He was a metals engineer for a large corporation, but I think deep inside, he’d rather have been a golf club instructor, manager, or club pro. :-) Here is an article that appeared a few years back in his alumni magazine. I thought you might enjoy it. Dad grew up fairly poor — one of two kids raised alone by their mom after the marriage broke up in the Depression; they shared the family homestead with his grandma, his aunt, and his two cousins. He had to work his tail off as a caddy just to get some playing time as a kid, but obviously it was worth it! Dad continued to regularly shoot his age or under right up until he developed dementia at age 80 in ‘99. http://www.wpi.edu/News/Wire/Fall96/hinman.html (Can you tell I’m a proud daughter?) xxoo Anne — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
gt: http://www.s-t.com/daily/06-96/06-20-96/d01sp119.htm This is a better copy of the article about my dad and golfing, complete with a nice pic. It was written in June ‘96. Three years later, he could no longer play golf due to his increasing dementia, and I knew that his life was essentially over… the game was his biggest passion. xxoo Anne — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We ended up finishing in the money, in fourth place. gt: This is excellent! I am very excited for you — especially to do so well after playing poorly for a bit. Is golf relaxing for you? It’s a nice quiet sport, compared to loud team sports, and all that walking around is good for the soul, I’d think. My late dad was a golf "addict" all his life and was very good — a 1 to 3 handicap when he was in his prime. He was a metals engineer for a large corporation, but I think deep inside, he’d rather have been a golf club instructor, manager, or club pro. :-) Here is an article that appeared a few years back in his alumni magazine. I thought you might enjoy it. Dad grew up fairly poor — one of two kids raised alone by their mom after the marriage broke up in the Depression; they shared the family homestead with his grandma, his aunt, and his two cousins. He had to work his tail off as a caddy just to get some playing time as a kid, but obviously it was worth it! Dad continued to regularly shoot his age or under right up until he developed dementia at age 80 in ‘99. http://www.wpi.edu/News/Wire/Fall96/hinman.html (Can you tell I’m a proud daughter?) xxoo Anne — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Anne (a.k.a. Proud Daughter), Wonderful story about your Dad. I enjoyed it. Skaneateles is just right down the road (about 40 minutes). I used to work with a Hinman that grew up in the country near Jordan. I do believe we have had discussions about the personality similarities between our fathers. I believe it centered around stern, moral and a wonderful teacher. I am one of these self made golfers. I played quite a bit of baseball and then several years of softball. I never started trying to play golf until I was 35 or 36. It is still a chore to not let my natural (through baseball/softball) tendancies take over. My attribute in baseball was speed and quickness. A formula for disaster in golf. Take care hon, gt — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Was just wondering. My husband is a new avid golfer, himself. I know you haven’t been sleeping well. Wondered how you did. Love, Vicki
Amazing! I just signed on to tell about our golf tournament. I appreciate you asking Vicki. Background. I would normally average around a 9 handicap. This year, since I have been defective, my concentration went out of the window and I am running around a 17 handicap. My partner is about a 25 handicap. For those of you that don’t play golf, I am shooting in the low 90’s instead of the low 80’s on 18 holes. We finished the league in the bottom 25%. Leagues are two person teams. Today was our league ending tournament. We played two man best ball. This means that we record the best score between my partner and myself. We played on a different course, a private country club. It is long and quite tight. Distance is needed, but accuracy is more important. The tourney. I played, my as of late, poor for 5 holes. With the issues that I have been having, I have tried to be mellow and slow down and concentrate on good contact. It obviously hasn’t worked. On the next tee, I told Rick that I was f…ing tired of trying to compensate for my ills and that I was going back to my big swing. He said, something to the effect of it is about f…ing time. Hit the f…ing ball. I cranked a 285 yard drive off of that tee, down the middle. I continued to play well for the last 13 holes. The guys that we were playing with are new in the league this year. They have only seen me play poorly. After a few holes, they asked, "Who is this guy?" We ended up finishing in the money, in fourth place. That was with the first five crappy holes. Not something to write home about in it’s own right, but a celebration for us. We were pleased! Take care. LY, gt — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Was just wondering. My husband is a new avid golfer, himself. I know you haven’t been sleeping well. Wondered how you did. Love, Vicki Amazing! I just signed on to tell about our golf tournament. I appreciate you asking Vicki. Background. I would normally average around a 9 handicap. This year, since I have been defective, my concentration went out of the window and I am running around a 17 handicap. My partner is about a 25 handicap. For those of you that don’t play golf, I am shooting in the low 90’s instead of the low 80’s on 18 holes. We finished the league in the bottom 25%. Leagues are two person teams. Today was our league ending tournament. We played two man best ball. This means that we record the best score between my partner and myself. We played on a different course, a private country club. It is long and quite tight. Distance is needed, but accuracy is more important. The tourney. I played, my as of late, poor for 5 holes. With the issues that I have been having, I have tried to be mellow and slow down and concentrate on good contact. It obviously hasn’t worked. On the next tee, I told Rick that I was f…ing tired of trying to compensate for my ills and that I was going back to my big swing. He said, something to the effect of it is about f…ing time. Hit the f…ing ball. I cranked a 285 yard drive off of that tee, down the middle. I continued to play well for the last 13 holes. The guys that we were playing with are new in the league this year. They have only seen me play poorly. After a few holes, they asked, "Who is this guy?" We ended up finishing in the money, in fourth place. That was with the first five crappy holes. Not something to write home about in it’s own right, but a celebration for us. We were pleased! Take care. LY, gt
Sounds like you enjoyed yourself! That is wonderful! Here’s hopes you slept well last night!! :) Love, Vicki — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Was just wondering. My husband is a new avid golfer, himself. I know you haven’t been sleeping well. Wondered how you did. Love, Vicki — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Geez. Everything’s not dead flat and people go ballistic. I’m *sure* I said in the course description that people should keep the ball below the hole. :) Mike —
I live in a desert. I’ve never seen a hill.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All courses are easy for scratch golfers and hard for bogey golfers. This course then is Very Easy for scratch golfer and Very Hard for bogey golfers? I think that may be a stretch. You’ve no doubt heard about how hard people thought my home course in Platteville is. The darned thing is only 6066 from the BLUES, for gosh sakes. Rating? 68.9. Slope? 123. Easy, right? Except, there have been scratch players who couldn’t break 80 on this course. A friend here invited two such players to play here. They won’t come back. I was talking to someone about this issue yesterday. We don’t have what I’d consider to be our share of REALLY low handicappers, the guys who are maybe 1-3. Very, very few. Most of the better players are in the 4-6 range. The guy who won our club championship this weekend is a 5. He beat a guy who is about the same. Do we have bad players, or is the course more challenging than the numbers would suggest? We do well in team events against other clubs who have players whose handicaps are lower than ours. So I don’t know as the "easy for scratch, hard for bogey" thing is always true. In many respects, our course isn’t that hard due to length, but it’s got its own set of challenges. Mike — Just another example of a course that has wrong ratings. Probably a very difficult course. ( part of my frustration is having a course rating for scratch golfers–Course Rating; and another set of numbers for Bogey golfers, slope. I’m not either one.) I’ll take it a step further, I hate handicaps. Naw forget it….I’ll get flamed by the Country Club folks. IMO, neither course rating nor slope accounts for what really makes Mike’s home course play tougher than it looks. Unreadable greens. :-) Well not unreadable, but very difficult to read. They are smooth and slick and there are a lot of subtle breaks that most of us found hard to figure out. Kenny Well, that and the 45* pitch of every green. gary hayenga
Geez. Everything’s not dead flat and people go ballistic. I’m *sure* I said in the course description that people should keep the ball below the hole. :) Mike — Mike Dalecki GCA Accredited Clubmaker http://clubdoctor.com RSG-Wisconsin 2003 Information: http://dalecki.net/rsgwis2003 RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=daleckim I do not patronize spammers. Help keep RSG clean!
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All courses are easy for scratch golfers and hard for bogey golfers. This course then is Very Easy for scratch golfer and Very Hard for bogey golfers? I think that may be a stretch. You’ve no doubt heard about how hard people thought my home course in Platteville is. The darned thing is only 6066 from the BLUES, for gosh sakes. Rating? 68.9. Slope? 123. Easy, right? Except, there have been scratch players who couldn’t break 80 on this course. A friend here invited two such players to play here. They won’t come back. I was talking to someone about this issue yesterday. We don’t have what I’d consider to be our share of REALLY low handicappers, the guys who are maybe 1-3. Very, very few. Most of the better players are in the 4-6 range. The guy who won our club championship this weekend is a 5. He beat a guy who is about the same. Do we have bad players, or is the course more challenging than the numbers would suggest? We do well in team events against other clubs who have players whose handicaps are lower than ours. So I don’t know as the "easy for scratch, hard for bogey" thing is always true. In many respects, our course isn’t that hard due to length, but it’s got its own set of challenges. Mike — Just another example of a course that has wrong ratings. Probably a very difficult course. ( part of my frustration is having a course rating for scratch golfers–Course Rating; and another set of numbers for Bogey golfers, slope. I’m not either one.) I’ll take it a step further, I hate handicaps. Naw forget it….I’ll get flamed by the Country Club folks. IMO, neither course rating nor slope accounts for what really makes Mike’s home course play tougher than it looks. Unreadable greens. :-) Well not unreadable, but very difficult to read. They are smooth and slick and there are a lot of subtle breaks that most of us found hard to figure out. Kenny
Well, that and the 45* pitch of every green. gary hayenga
You don’t seem to understand slope correctly. Rating relates to only one type of golfer – scratch. That was the whole problem with the rating, and the reason slope was invented. Slope is *based* on the bogey golfer, but unlike the rating, it *relates* to all golfers (at least all golfers above scratch, and theoretically below too, but…) A slope is exactly what it sounds like in a math context.
Except that the assumption that the slope is a straight line is just that, an assumption. Real measurements could find that it should be a curve, and that curve should vary from course to course. But in real life there are lots of variables. One course may favor a slicing 20 handicap player, another may favor a long hitting 20 handicap player, a third course may be perfect for the short hitting 20 handicap player, a fifth course may be ideal for the great putting 20 handicap player…
OK, I suppose the slope would be easier to use then. However, why not just call a "standard" difficulty course a 1.0 when you expect a non-scratch golfer to score his handicap above the course rating, rather than the handicap*slope/113 business? – Robert – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any idea of why the USGA doesn’t just skip the slope/factor weirdness and just use a bogey rating to rate a course’s difficulty? That can be useful information when evaluating which tees you should play. But if you play handicap golf, with net scores – you want a system to measure how much more difficult a course is for poorer golfers than for better golfers.
( part of my frustration is having a course rating for scratch golfers–Course Rating; and another set of numbers for Bogey golfers, slope. I’m not either one.) I’ll take it a step further, I hate handicaps. Naw forget it….I’ll get flamed by the Country Club folks.
I suppose someday in the future, they will have handicap systems that take more than these two measuring points. I’m not into net scores. But I AM into setting goals for myself. I can determine my course handicap for various courses and tees and use these to see how good I am playing. I can play match play against my handicap.
Any idea of why the USGA doesn’t just skip the slope/factor weirdness and just use a bogey rating to rate a course’s difficulty?
That can be useful information when evaluating which tees you should play. But if you play handicap golf, with net scores – you want a system to measure how much more difficult a course is for poorer golfers than for better golfers.
Rick – But the standard slope is 113, so the "correct" factor should be more like 113/18 or about 6.28, shouldn’t it? – Robert – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Course Rating: the USGA’s mark that indicates the evaluation of the playing difficulty of a course for scratch golfers. It is based on yardage and other obstacles to the extent that they affect the scoring difficulty of the scratch golfer. Example: 68.5 Bogey Rating: the one number every golfer worse than a scratch should check before deciding which tees to play. This rating is the evaluation of the playing difficulty of a course for the bogey golfer. It is based on yardage, effective playing length and other obstacles to the extent that affect the scoring ability of the bogey golfer. To figure out this number, other than from looking at this database, the bogey golfer should take the Slope Rating, divide it by the set factor (5.381 for men, and 4.24 for women) and add that to the Course Rating. The result is a target score for the bogey player, and is a truer yardstick of the challenge that lies ahead for the particular set of tees. Example: 96.3 -( which predicts the bogey golfer’s average of his ten best (out of twenty) scores would be approximately 96.3 from this particular set of tees). Slope Rating: the USGA’s mark that indicates the measurement of the relative difficulty for the Bogey Golfer compared to the Course Rating. Slope Rating is computed from the difference between the Bogey Rating and the Course Rating. The lowest Slope Rating is 55 and the highest is 155. Example: 125
Any idea of why the USGA doesn’t just skip the slope/factor weirdness and just use a bogey rating to rate a course’s difficulty? – Robert – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Course Rating: the USGA’s mark that indicates the evaluation of the playing difficulty of a course for scratch golfers. It is based on yardage and other obstacles to the extent that they affect the scoring difficulty of the scratch golfer. Example: 68.5 Bogey Rating: the one number every golfer worse than a scratch should check before deciding which tees to play. This rating is the evaluation of the playing difficulty of a course for the bogey golfer. It is based on yardage, effective playing length and other obstacles to the extent that affect the scoring ability of the bogey golfer. To figure out this number, other than from looking at this database, the bogey golfer should take the Slope Rating, divide it by the set factor (5.381 for men, and 4.24 for women) and add that to the Course Rating. The result is a target score for the bogey player, and is a truer yardstick of the challenge that lies ahead for the particular set of tees. Example: 96.3 -( which predicts the bogey golfer’s average of his ten best (out of twenty) scores would be approximately 96.3 from this particular set of tees). Slope Rating: the USGA’s mark that indicates the measurement of the relative difficulty for the Bogey Golfer compared to the Course Rating. Slope Rating is computed from the difference between the Bogey Rating and the Course Rating. The lowest Slope Rating is 55 and the highest is 155. Example: 125
All courses are easy for scratch golfers and hard for bogey golfers. This course then is Very Easy for scratch golfer and Very Hard for bogey golfers? I think that may be a stretch. You’ve no doubt heard about how hard people thought my home course in Platteville is. The darned thing is only 6066 from the BLUES, for gosh sakes. Rating? 68.9. Slope? 123. Easy, right? Except, there have been scratch players who couldn’t break 80 on this course. A friend here invited two such players to play here. They won’t come back. Mike
I am sure your friend took their money, that course is a perfect course to establish a handicap! Good for members but pretty rude to guests. I’d say. Puttster
Just another example of a course that has wrong ratings. Probably a very difficult course. ( part of my frustration is having a course rating for scratch golfers–Course Rating; and another set of numbers for Bogey golfers, slope. I’m not either one.)
You don’t seem to understand slope correctly. Rating relates to only one type of golfer – scratch. That was the whole problem with the rating, and the reason slope was invented. Slope is *based* on the bogey golfer, but unlike the rating, it *relates* to all golfers (at least all golfers above scratch, and theoretically below too, but…) A slope is exactly what it sounds like in a math context. Remember your high school math? A rating is a point. A slope is an entire line, and any golfer can find themselves on that line. The line was created from 2 points – scratch golfer and bogey golf, and as you recall any 2 points form a line But the point is, the rating is a point (1 value), and the slope is a line (infinite values).
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All courses are easy for scratch golfers and hard for bogey golfers. This course then is Very Easy for scratch golfer and Very Hard for bogey golfers? I think that may be a stretch. You’ve no doubt heard about how hard people thought my home course in Platteville is. The darned thing is only 6066 from the BLUES, for gosh sakes. Rating? 68.9. Slope? 123. Easy, right? Except, there have been scratch players who couldn’t break 80 on this course. A friend here invited two such players to play here. They won’t come back. I was talking to someone about this issue yesterday. We don’t have what I’d consider to be our share of REALLY low handicappers, the guys who are maybe 1-3. Very, very few. Most of the better players are in the 4-6 range. The guy who won our club championship this weekend is a 5. He beat a guy who is about the same. Do we have bad players, or is the course more challenging than the numbers would suggest? We do well in team events against other clubs who have players whose handicaps are lower than ours. So I don’t know as the "easy for scratch, hard for bogey" thing is always true. In many respects, our course isn’t that hard due to length, but it’s got its own set of challenges. Mike — Just another example of a course that has wrong ratings. Probably a very difficult course. ( part of my frustration is having a course rating for scratch golfers–Course Rating; and another set of numbers for Bogey golfers, slope. I’m not either one.) I’ll take it a step further, I hate handicaps. Naw forget it….I’ll get flamed by the Country Club folks.
IMO, neither course rating nor slope accounts for what really makes Mike’s home course play tougher than it looks. Unreadable greens. :-) Well not unreadable, but very difficult to read. They are smooth and slick and there are a lot of subtle breaks that most of us found hard to figure out. Kenny — Kenny Stultz – Troll and SPAM intolerant RSG Rollcall: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=stultzk "Golf is the only sport where a precise knowledge of the Rules can earn one a reputation for bad sportsmanship"
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All courses are easy for scratch golfers and hard for bogey golfers. This course then is Very Easy for scratch golfer and Very Hard for bogey golfers? I think that may be a stretch. You’ve no doubt heard about how hard people thought my home course in Platteville is. The darned thing is only 6066 from the BLUES, for gosh sakes. Rating? 68.9. Slope? 123. Easy, right? Except, there have been scratch players who couldn’t break 80 on this course. A friend here invited two such players to play here. They won’t come back. I was talking to someone about this issue yesterday. We don’t have what I’d consider to be our share of REALLY low handicappers, the guys who are maybe 1-3. Very, very few. Most of the better players are in the 4-6 range. The guy who won our club championship this weekend is a 5. He beat a guy who is about the same. Do we have bad players, or is the course more challenging than the numbers would suggest? We do well in team events against other clubs who have players whose handicaps are lower than ours. So I don’t know as the "easy for scratch, hard for bogey" thing is always true. In many respects, our course isn’t that hard due to length, but it’s got its own set of challenges. Mike —
Just another example of a course that has wrong ratings. Probably a very difficult course. ( part of my frustration is having a course rating for scratch golfers–Course Rating; and another set of numbers for Bogey golfers, slope. I’m not either one.) I’ll take it a step further, I hate handicaps. Naw forget it….I’ll get flamed by the Country Club folks.
All courses are easy for scratch golfers and hard for bogey golfers. This course then is Very Easy for scratch golfer and Very Hard for bogey golfers?
I think that may be a stretch. You’ve no doubt heard about how hard people thought my home course in Platteville is. The darned thing is only 6066 from the BLUES, for gosh sakes. Rating? 68.9. Slope? 123. Easy, right? Except, there have been scratch players who couldn’t break 80 on this course. A friend here invited two such players to play here. They won’t come back. I was talking to someone about this issue yesterday. We don’t have what I’d consider to be our share of REALLY low handicappers, the guys who are maybe 1-3. Very, very few. Most of the better players are in the 4-6 range. The guy who won our club championship this weekend is a 5. He beat a guy who is about the same. Do we have bad players, or is the course more challenging than the numbers would suggest? We do well in team events against other clubs who have players whose handicaps are lower than ours. So I don’t know as the "easy for scratch, hard for bogey" thing is always true. In many respects, our course isn’t that hard due to length, but it’s got its own set of challenges. Mike — Mike Dalecki GCA Accredited Clubmaker http://clubdoctor.com RSG-Wisconsin 2003 Information: http://dalecki.net/rsgwis2003 RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=daleckim I do not patronize spammers. Help keep RSG clean!
All courses are easy for scratch golfers and hard for bogey golfers.
But that’s not true. Ask the pros who just played Oak Hill. It has a rating of 76, and that’s not set up for a PGA major tournament, just regular member play. (Having said that, the head pro said they had the greens at 14 on the stimp for a recent member/guest, "just to see if they could do it". Yes, that is faster than the PGA Championship.)
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The course I’ve been playing at this year, from the ‘member tees’, has the following. Yardage…..6250 Course Rating…..68.7 Back tees are 6850, par 71, course rating 71, slope 140. It seems to me that the course rating is too low for a slope of 130. Or, that the slope is too high for a course rating of 68.7. But if they did what you seem to suggest, then there would be no reason to have a slope at all. The whole point of a slope is to distinguish what a bogey golfer is going to do relative to what a scratch golfer is going to do. It’s perfectly normal to have numbers like that, since the 2 types of golfers have different types of problems or challenges on a golf course. The rating is mostly related to length, and scratch golfers don’t have much trouble with length, while bogey golfers usually do. On the other hand, if the course is short, the rating will be low, but there can still be other problems, such as forced carries, that will pose no problem at all to scratch golfers, while eating many golf balls of the bogey players. In other words the course is short but difficult? I think it means its easy for good players and hard for bad players.
Think I’ll host RSG SCottsdale here and see what shakes out.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The course I’ve been playing at this year, from the ‘member tees’, has the following. Yardage…..6250 Course Rating…..68.7 Back tees are 6850, par 71, course rating 71, slope 140. It seems to me that the course rating is too low for a slope of 130. Or, that the slope is too high for a course rating of 68.7. But if they did what you seem to suggest, then there would be no reason to have a slope at all. The whole point of a slope is to distinguish what a bogey golfer is going to do relative to what a scratch golfer is going to do. It’s perfectly normal to have numbers like that, since the 2 types of golfers have different types of problems or challenges on a golf course. The rating is mostly related to length, and scratch golfers don’t have much trouble with length, while bogey golfers usually do. On the other hand, if the course is short, the rating will be low, but there can still be other problems, such as forced carries, that will pose no problem at all to scratch golfers, while eating many golf balls of the bogey players. In other words the course is short but difficult?
I think it means its easy for good players and hard for bad players.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The course I’ve been playing at this year, from the ‘member tees’, has the following. Yardage…..6250 Course Rating…..68.7 Back tees are 6850, par 71, course rating 71, slope 140. It seems to me that the course rating is too low for a slope of 130. Or, that the slope is too high for a course rating of 68.7. But if they did what you seem to suggest, then there would be no reason to have a slope at all. The whole point of a slope is to distinguish what a bogey golfer is going to do relative to what a scratch golfer is going to do. It’s perfectly normal to have numbers like that, since the 2 types of golfers have different types of problems or challenges on a golf course. The rating is mostly related to length, and scratch golfers don’t have much trouble with length, while bogey golfers usually do. On the other hand, if the course is short, the rating will be low, but there can still be other problems, such as forced carries, that will pose no problem at all to scratch golfers, while eating many golf balls of the bogey players.
All courses are easy for scratch golfers and hard for bogey golfers. This course then is Very Easy for scratch golfer and Very Hard for bogey golfers?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The course I’ve been playing at this year, from the ‘member tees’, has the following. Yardage…..6250 Course Rating…..68.7 Back tees are 6850, par 71, course rating 71, slope 140. It seems to me that the course rating is too low for a slope of 130. Or, that the slope is too high for a course rating of 68.7. But if they did what you seem to suggest, then there would be no reason to have a slope at all. The whole point of a slope is to distinguish what a bogey golfer is going to do relative to what a scratch golfer is going to do. It’s perfectly normal to have numbers like that, since the 2 types of golfers have different types of problems or challenges on a golf course. The rating is mostly related to length, and scratch golfers don’t have much trouble with length, while bogey golfers usually do. On the other hand, if the course is short, the rating will be low, but there can still be other problems, such as forced carries, that will pose no problem at all to scratch golfers, while eating many golf balls of the bogey players.
In other words the course is short but difficult?
The course I’ve been playing at this year, from the ‘member tees’, has the following. Yardage…..6250 Course Rating…..68.7 Back tees are 6850, par 71, course rating 71, slope 140. It seems to me that the course rating is too low for a slope of 130. Or, that the slope is too high for a course rating of 68.7.
But if they did what you seem to suggest, then there would be no reason to have a slope at all. The whole point of a slope is to distinguish what a bogey golfer is going to do relative to what a scratch golfer is going to do. It’s perfectly normal to have numbers like that, since the 2 types of golfers have different types of problems or challenges on a golf course. The rating is mostly related to length, and scratch golfers don’t have much trouble with length, while bogey golfers usually do. On the other hand, if the course is short, the rating will be low, but there can still be other problems, such as forced carries, that will pose no problem at all to scratch golfers, while eating many golf balls of the bogey players.
Course Rating: the USGA’s mark that indicates the evaluation of the playing difficulty of a course for scratch golfers. It is based on yardage and other obstacles to the extent that they affect the scoring difficulty of the scratch golfer. Example: 68.5 Bogey Rating: the one number every golfer worse than a scratch should check before deciding which tees to play. This rating is the evaluation of the playing difficulty of a course for the bogey golfer. It is based on yardage, effective playing length and other obstacles to the extent that affect the scoring ability of the bogey golfer. To figure out this number, other than from looking at this database, the bogey golfer should take the Slope Rating, divide it by the set factor (5.381 for men, and 4.24 for women) and add that to the Course Rating. The result is a target score for the bogey player, and is a truer yardstick of the challenge that lies ahead for the particular set of tees. Example: 96.3 -( which predicts the bogey golfer’s average of his ten best (out of twenty) scores would be approximately 96.3 from this particular set of tees). Slope Rating: the USGA’s mark that indicates the measurement of the relative difficulty for the Bogey Golfer compared to the Course Rating. Slope Rating is computed from the difference between the Bogey Rating and the Course Rating. The lowest Slope Rating is 55 and the highest is 155. Example: 125 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The course I’ve been playing at this year, from the ‘member tees’, has the following. Yardage…..6250 Course Rating…..68.7 Back tees are 6850, par 71, course rating 71, slope 140. It seems to me that the course rating is too low for a slope of 130. Or, that the slope is too high for a course rating of 68.7. It is a desert course. Real desert, not the fake sand and waste areas some courses throw out there in AZ to look like desert. If you miss the fairway, you’re in with boulders, and surely have no play. Desert on South of course plays as hazzard. You are not allowed in there to even look for balls as it is an Audobon Society Natural Habitat. The remain desert can be played from, but lies are usually impossible.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The course I’ve been playing at this year, from the ‘member tees’, has the following. Yardage…..6250 Course Rating…..68.7 Back tees are 6850, par 71, course rating 71, slope 140. It seems to me that the course rating is too low for a slope of 130. Or, that the slope is too high for a course rating of 68.7. It is a desert course. Real desert, not the fake sand and waste areas some courses throw out there in AZ to look like desert. If you miss the fairway, you’re in with boulders, and surely have no play. Desert on South of course plays as hazzard. You are not allowed in there to even look for balls as it is an Audobon Society Natural Habitat. The remain desert can be played from, but lies are usually impossible.
Based on your description of the course, 68.7 sounds entirely too low. And the slope may be too low also. Heck, my course is a 125 slope from the Blues at about 6250 yards , with plenty of water and sand, but nothing like the hazards you describe. I have played desert golf many times and know how penal they can be. These courses out here are a cakewalk compared to some of them. Eric "the Hammer"
It seems to me that the course rating is too low for a slope of 130. Or, that the slope is too high for a course rating of 68.7.
No, they are different measures completely. The reason a course may have a low course rating but a high slope rating is this: scratch golfers keep the ball out of trouble and can make a good score(this is related to the course rating). Bogey players spray the ball all over the place and when a course has a lot of trouble(water, sand, boulders, elevation) the bogey player’s score goes way way up. The slope rating is related to the difference in scoring between a scratch player and a bogey player. So if a course
My understanding is that the old course rating is based solely on distance. The slope rating tries to take into account distance and other factors that make the course more or less difficult, such as hazards, severity of greens, narrowness of fairways, etc.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The course I’ve been playing at this year, from the ‘member tees’, has the following. Yardage…..6250 Course Rating…..68.7 Back tees are 6850, par 71, course rating 71, slope 140. It seems to me that the course rating is too low for a slope of 130. Or, that the slope is too high for a course rating of 68.7. It is a desert course. Real desert, not the fake sand and waste areas some courses throw out there in AZ to look like desert. If you miss the fairway, you’re in with boulders, and surely have no play. Desert on South of course plays as hazzard. You are not allowed in there to even look for balls as it is an Audobon Society Natural Habitat. The remain desert can be played from, but lies are usually impossible.
The course I’ve been playing at this year, from the ‘member tees’, has the following. Yardage…..6250 Course Rating…..68.7 Back tees are 6850, par 71, course rating 71, slope 140. It seems to me that the course rating is too low for a slope of 130. Or, that the slope is too high for a course rating of 68.7. It is a desert course. Real desert, not the fake sand and waste areas some courses throw out there in AZ to look like desert. If you miss the fairway, you’re in with boulders, and surely have no play. Desert on South of course plays as hazzard. You are not allowed in there to even look for balls as it is an Audobon Society Natural Habitat. The remain desert can be played from, but lies are usually impossible.
Two Hills Lions Golf and Country Club – 9 holes located in Two Hills Alberta. Blues 6526 yds Par 70 Rated 69, Slope 113 (NO way I believe this slope and rating!) Whites 6094 yds Par 70 Rated 74.8 Slope 129 (I believe this) Reds 5506 yds Par 72 Rated 72 Slope 125 (Don’t know) Interesting http://www.tee-off.ca/courses/ab318.htm gives different anomalous slop & ratings.
Don’t know if this is the case here but Tee-off has been wrong on the slope and ratings and other info of a few courses I have been to. As there goal is to sell you a coupon book more than to provide info I guess they don’t update or check their numbers very often. Rod
Hey All, Comments Below. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Driving back on Saturday from the one 25 mins away it occurred to me that we all have "home" course(s) and it occurred to me to ask about yours. The one I currently mostly consider my home course looks something like this. Two Hills Lions Golf and Country Club – 9 holes located in Two Hills Alberta. Blues 6526 yds Par 70 Rated 69, Slope 113 (NO way I believe this slope and rating!) Whites 6094 yds Par 70 Rated 74.8 Slope 129 (I believe this) Reds 5506 yds Par 72 Rated 72 Slope 125 (Don’t know) I went to the following website: http://www.tee-off.ca/courses/ab318.htm and found the following info: Blue (Championship tees): 6626 yds, par 70, rating 68.8, slope 114 White (Regular tees): 5784 yds, par 70, rating 71.8, slope 113. That’s weird! Why is the rating higher for shorter tees? Hmmm. Red (Forward tees): 5278 yds, par 72, not rated for men or women acc. to this site. Peculiar, compared with what you found, Ed. Peter
Peter an all, It is peculiar. The course ratings and slopes that I reported came right off the scorecard. I don’t have a website but could email a digital image of the scorecard to anyone interested. I doubt that the web site at tee-off.ca has the right info. This course is harder than their numbers suggest. Those numbers are fairly equivalent to my other "home" course in Vegreville Alberta which is much easier. Nevertheless it does lead one to wonder who’s right and about the legitimacy of someone’s handicap that is established at Two Hills? (what slope and rating info do they use?) I suspect that the scorecard data is what is used for handicap purposes. Also I wonder how many other courses have discrepancies between the scorecard and a website that is not owned and run by the course itself. One other comment about the tee-off. ca website info. Although accurate in it’s depiction the picture makes the course look wide open an somewhat flat. It’s no where near as wideopen and flat as the pic makes it look. It also appears to me to be an older picture obviously taken late in the year or during a drought. Also the course map as many course maps are is deceiving in that bunkers, fairway widths, brush patches an such are not drawn to scale. So the course layout makes the course look straightforward and easy. Reality is different. If you ever find yourself near Two Hills Alberta – the course is worth a play. Take Care! -Ed-
Driving back on Saturday from the one 25 mins away it occurred to me that we all have "home" course(s) and it occurred to me to ask about yours. The one I currently mostly consider my home course looks something like this. Two Hills Lions Golf and Country Club – 9 holes located in Two Hills Alberta. Blues 6526 yds Par 70 Rated 69, Slope 113 (NO way I believe this slope and rating!) Whites 6094 yds Par 70 Rated 74.8 Slope 129 (I believe this) Reds 5506 yds Par 72 Rated 72 Slope 125 (Don’t know)
I went to the following website: http://www.tee-off.ca/courses/ab318.htm and found the following info: Blue (Championship tees): 6626 yds, par 70, rating 68.8, slope 114 White (Regular tees): 5784 yds, par 70, rating 71.8, slope 113. That’s weird! Why is the rating higher for shorter tees? Hmmm. Red (Forward tees): 5278 yds, par 72, not rated for men or women acc. to this site. Peculiar, compared with what you found, Ed. Peter
Harding Park is about golf. Olympic Club is about money.
I know, but I didn’t want to say that!
<snip Blues 6526 yds Par 70 Rated 69, Slope 113 (NO way I believe this slope and rating!) Whites 6094 yds Par 70 Rated 74.8 Slope 129 (I believe this) Reds 5506 yds Par 72 Rated 72 Slope 125 (Don’t know)
I’ve never seen a course where the blues’ rating/slope was easier than the whites, let alone the reds. What’s the story with that? I can see why you don’t believe it.
Two Hills Lions Golf and Country Club – 9 holes located in Two Hills Alberta. Blues 6526 yds Par 70 Rated 69, Slope 113 (NO way I believe this slope and rating!) Whites 6094 yds Par 70 Rated 74.8 Slope 129 (I believe this) Reds 5506 yds Par 72 Rated 72 Slope 125 (Don’t know)
Interesting http://www.tee-off.ca/courses/ab318.htm gives different anomalous slop & ratings.
Driving back on Saturday from the one 25 mins away it occurred to me that we all have "home" course(s) and it occurred to me to ask about yours. The one I currently mostly consider my home course looks something like this. Two Hills Lions Golf and Country Club – 9 holes located in Two Hills Alberta. Blues 6526 yds Par 70 Rated 69, Slope 113 (NO way I believe this slope and rating!) Whites 6094 yds Par 70 Rated 74.8 Slope 129 (I believe this) Reds 5506 yds Par 72 Rated 72 Slope 125 (Don’t know)
<snipped I belong to a club ‘w/o real estate’ and there are about 5 courses in the area that I play on a regular basis. So I think I can safely say I don’t have a ‘home course’. WRT those ratings, I wonder if the White is actually a women’s slope & rating? A 129 slope for a 6100 yard par 70 is very high for a men’s rating, but pretty typical of a moderately difficult women’s rating. I do agree that a 113 slope for the 6500+ yard blues has to be wrong. Even if the course were absolutely flat, with no hazards, no rough, no trees and no wind, 6500 yards is still a long course for the ‘typical’ bogey golfer. I would think the yardage alone should bump it up to about 118, with other increases for severity of hazards, elevation changes, forced carries, etc. — Dan Driscoll Member – NCGA RSG FAQ: http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html RSG Roll Call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=driscolld
Harding Park is about golf. Olympic Club is about money.
I wouldnt mind having both!!! I of course understand the difference between the two courses and what they have to offer. But in a blind viewing of the course, minus the clubhouse, I believe Harding is similar. In a recent Chronicle story, the new harding head pro from kemper sports jokingly referred to Olympic club as Harding Park South. haha, im sure the olympic club guys just LOVED that <sarcasm — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I always thought about this. I dont really have a home course. I joined the NCGA through an associate club without real estate so I dont belong to any course mens club. There is no course I play more regular then another. I rotate between several local courses and in the san francisco bay area there are many great ones. Mostly I play presidio, Poppy Hills, monarch bay, alameda’s Chuck Corica golf complex, Sharp park. But all that is hopefully to change. Recently all the talk in the bay area has been about Harding Park. Harding was shut down last year to undergo a complete renovation. Harding park is next door neighbor to the Olympic club, home of the 1998 US Open. The harding park makeover is going to give the Olympic club course a run for the money. At $33 weekday and $45 weekend they are poised to be the best and most affordable muni in the bay area. They are limiting to only 200 rounds per day so they intend to keep the course beautiful. Im on the waiting list to join the mens club there and will consider Harding to be my HOME course seeing as how its not far from my house. Check out the pictures from the renovation.. http://www.hardingparkgolf.com/renovation.htm I’m sure the Harding Park course will be fantastic, however I doubt it will give Olympic Club a run for their money. The membership at Olympic is a different group of folks that enjoy private golf club membership for reasons beyond just golf. A guy I grew up with is a member there and he doesn’t even play golf. His brother, also a member of Olympic doesn’t play there either. He plays at Sequoia CC across the Bay. But these guys enjoy the social and business contacts that Olympic offers them. Their clients like it too.
Harding Park is about golf. Olympic Club is about money.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I always thought about this. I dont really have a home course. I joined the NCGA through an associate club without real estate so I dont belong to any course mens club. There is no course I play more regular then another. I rotate between several local courses and in the san francisco bay area there are many great ones. Mostly I play presidio, Poppy Hills, monarch bay, alameda’s Chuck Corica golf complex, Sharp park. But all that is hopefully to change. Recently all the talk in the bay area has been about Harding Park. Harding was shut down last year to undergo a complete renovation. Harding park is next door neighbor to the Olympic club, home of the 1998 US Open. The harding park makeover is going to give the Olympic club course a run for the money. At $33 weekday and $45 weekend they are poised to be the best and most affordable muni in the bay area. They are limiting to only 200 rounds per day so they intend to keep the course beautiful. Im on the waiting list to join the mens club there and will consider Harding to be my HOME course seeing as how its not far from my house. Check out the pictures from the renovation.. http://www.hardingparkgolf.com/renovation.htm
I’m sure the Harding Park course will be fantastic, however I doubt it will give Olympic Club a run for their money. The membership at Olympic is a different group of folks that enjoy private golf club membership for reasons beyond just golf. A guy I grew up with is a member there and he doesn’t even play golf. His brother, also a member of Olympic doesn’t play there either. He plays at Sequoia CC across the Bay. But these guys enjoy the social and business contacts that Olympic offers them. Their clients like it too.
Two Hills Lions Golf and Country Club – 9 holes located in Two Hills Alberta.
Ed: find the time and wherewithall to get down to Silvertip, in Canmore, if you haven’t already done so. You’ll be glad you did. Was there a couple of months ago. Most beautiful course I’ve ever seen or heard of, anywhere. And for an early (pre-7:30) round, not too expensive at all — I think it was Cdn$90. Well worth it. www.silvertipresort.com http://www.golfti.com/alberta/silvertip/vs/ Peter
Two Hills Lions Golf and Country Club – 9 holes located in Two Hills Alberta. Ed: find the time and wherewithall to get down to Silvertip, in Canmore, if you haven’t already done so.
And Wolf Creek in Ponoka, if you get the chance. Probably 3-4 hours drive from where you are, but worth it.
I always thought about this. I dont really have a home course. I joined the NCGA through an associate club without real estate so I dont belong to any course mens club. There is no course I play more regular then another. I rotate between several local courses and in the san francisco bay area there are many great ones. Mostly I play presidio, Poppy Hills, monarch bay, alameda’s Chuck Corica golf complex, Sharp park. But all that is hopefully to change. Recently all the talk in the bay area has been about Harding Park. Harding was shut down last year to undergo a complete renovation. Harding park is next door neighbor to the Olympic club, home of the 1998 US Open. The harding park makeover is going to give the Olympic club course a run for the money. At $33 weekday and $45 weekend they are poised to be the best and most affordable muni in the bay area. They are limiting to only 200 rounds per day so they intend to keep the course beautiful. Im on the waiting list to join the mens club there and will consider Harding to be my HOME course seeing as how its not far from my house. Check out the pictures from the renovation.. http://www.hardingparkgolf.com/renovation.htm
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey All, Played 18 on Saturday and 9 on Sunday (lets not talk scores now) on my two "home" courses. One is 5 mins away the other 25 mins away. I way prefer the one further away – it’s just a question of whether or not I’ve got an extra 45 mins for driving time. Driving back on Saturday from the one 25 mins away it occurred to me that we all have "home" course(s) and it occurred to me to ask about yours. The one I currently mostly consider my home course looks something like this. Two Hills Lions Golf and Country Club – 9 holes located in Two Hills Alberta. Blues 6526 yds Par 70 Rated 69, Slope 113 (NO way I believe this slope and rating!) Whites 6094 yds Par 70 Rated 74.8 Slope 129 (I believe this) Reds 5506 yds Par 72 Rated 72 Slope 125 (Don’t know) This course was built on an old gravel quarry so it does have some up an down. Trees are scrawny aspen scrub and not a lot of them so the course tends to be fairly open but… The quarry has lots of water so the course is always very lush and the relatively large greens tend to be slow. Even last year during the worst drought in recorded history around here this course was lush. The rough is bluegrass, crested wheatgrass and native rough fescue. The rough is usually 6 to 8 inches and you can easily lose a ball in it even if only 3 ft off the fairway. Fairways tend to be narrow on straight holes and wide on doglegs – wide of course the direction that makes the second shot longer. Fairways and greens are well trapped and fairway traps tend to beg you to try to carry them on doglegs. Wind is probably the key feature on this course. Probably five of 10 days it will be from the west, 3 days from other directions and 2 days relatively still. Highlight holes. 2 Par 3s both just over 190 from the blues and both face straight west – if the wind is blowing hard from the west heaven help ya – I’ve hit driver on these holes an been short – one time I ballooned one and it landed 40 yds behind the tee. One 365 yard par 4 is a dogleg left but from the tee you can see the green an if you can carry about 275 yards of water – go for it! I can’t. If you go for it don’t hook it cause your OB real fast. Another par 4 – 416 yards that forces a 190 yd+ (it’s uphill) carry over a gully to a blind landing area. If you don’t make the carry the hole gets really long really fast. If the drive is too long you tend to get left with a severe downhill lie to an elevated green. The signature par 4 9th is 497 yards straight away downhill then up if the wind is from the west it plays shorter but is still long. Everytime I play this hole I think how lucky the PGA tour pros have it to always face par 4s shorter than this one. The other holes are not as tough by comparison to these but in comparison to other courses I’ve played they aren’t slouches either (due to well placed traps and/or narrow fairways). Everytime I play this course I’m amazed that a little prairie Podunksville town like Two Hills Alberta (popn about 1200) has such a gem of a course. The designer after doing this course went on to design courses in Japan, the US (Georgia) and elsewhere in Canada. I grew up playing courses in the Spokane WA area (Indian Canyon, Esmeralda, Down River, Hangman Valley and sometimes Liberty Lake) and then I lived in Southern CA and have played Torrey Pines (north and south), Rivieria, Pauma Valley, Sandpiper etc plus living in Oregon I’ve played some beautiful courses – Elkhorn, the OSU course and Bandon Dunes (my mother in law lives near there) to name a few. I must confess this little nine hole course is, in it’s own way, the equal of any of them. Many locals don’t like the course as they claim it’s too hard. That’s what I like about it. I look forward to hearing (reading actually) about your "home" courses. Take Care! -Ed-
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Hey All, Played 18 on Saturday and 9 on Sunday (lets not talk scores now) on my two "home" courses. One is 5 mins away the other 25 mins away. I way prefer the one further away – it’s just a question of whether or not I’ve got an extra 45 mins for driving time. Driving back on Saturday from the one 25 mins away it occurred to me that we all have "home" course(s) and it occurred to me to ask about yours. The one I currently mostly consider my home course looks something like this. Two Hills Lions Golf and Country Club – 9 holes located in Two Hills Alberta. Blues 6526 yds Par 70 Rated 69, Slope 113 (NO way I believe this slope and rating!) Whites 6094 yds Par 70 Rated 74.8 Slope 129 (I believe this) Reds 5506 yds Par 72 Rated 72 Slope 125 (Don’t know) This course was built on an old gravel quarry so it does have some up an down. Trees are scrawny aspen scrub and not a lot of them so the course tends to be fairly open but… The quarry has lots of water so the course is always very lush and the relatively large greens tend to be slow. Even last year during the worst drought in recorded history around here this course was lush. The rough is bluegrass, crested wheatgrass and native rough fescue. The rough is usually 6 to 8 inches and you can easily lose a ball in it even if only 3 ft off the fairway. Fairways tend to be narrow on straight holes and wide on doglegs – wide of course the direction that makes the second shot longer. Fairways and greens are well trapped and fairway traps tend to beg you to try to carry them on doglegs. Wind is probably the key feature on this course. Probably five of 10 days it will be from the west, 3 days from other directions and 2 days relatively still. Highlight holes. 2 Par 3s both just over 190 from the blues and both face straight west – if the wind is blowing hard from the west heaven help ya – I’ve hit driver on these holes an been short – one time I ballooned one and it landed 40 yds behind the tee. One 365 yard par 4 is a dogleg left but from the tee you can see the green an if you can carry about 275 yards of water – go for it! I can’t. If you go for it don’t hook it cause your OB real fast. Another par 4 – 416 yards that forces a 190 yd+ (it’s uphill) carry over a gully to a blind landing area. If you don’t make the carry the hole gets really long really fast. If the drive is too long you tend to get left with a severe downhill lie to an elevated green. The signature par 4 9th is 497 yards straight away downhill then up if the wind is from the west it plays shorter but is still long. Everytime I play this hole I think how lucky the PGA tour pros have it to always face par 4s shorter than this one. The other holes are not as tough by comparison to these but in comparison to other courses I’ve played they aren’t slouches either (due to well placed traps and/or narrow fairways). Everytime I play this course I’m amazed that a little prairie Podunksville town like Two Hills Alberta (popn about 1200) has such a gem of a course. The designer after doing this course went on to design courses in Japan, the US (Georgia) and elsewhere in Canada. I grew up playing courses in the Spokane WA area (Indian Canyon, Esmeralda, Down River, Hangman Valley and sometimes Liberty Lake) and then I lived in Southern CA and have played Torrey Pines (north and south), Rivieria, Pauma Valley, Sandpiper etc plus living in Oregon I’ve played some beautiful courses – Elkhorn, the OSU course and Bandon Dunes (my mother in law lives near there) to name a few. I must confess this little nine hole course is, in it’s own way, the equal of any of them. Many locals don’t like the course as they claim it’s too hard. That’s what I like about it. I look forward to hearing (reading actually) about your "home" courses. Take Care! -Ed-
Eric, please make sure the redneck hat is an extra large. Those one-size-fit-some hats just don’t work for me.
Eric, please make sure the redneck hat is an extra large. Those one-size-fit-some hats just don’t work for me.
Same here. Those who have accused me of having a "big head" in the past don’t know how true that is. Randy "The Bobble-Head"
Randy, speaking from experience, you cannot put $35 of groceries in a $5 bag. ;-)
The Georgia Redneck Invitational will be held on September 12 and 13. September 12, will just be a casual round around 2-3 pm for whoever is interested and course yet to be determined. On Saturday, we will play at Creekside Golf and Country Club, in Hiram. which is about 15 minutes from Marietta. Two rounds with cart for $70. On both days, I will plan group dinner outings after the golf The Saturday AM rounds will be for Gross score and the winner will receive the coveted Georgia Redneck Cup. It is in the works right now and will truly be something you will want to proudly show off to all your friends and family. In the PM. we will play Buford’s Mulligan Madness. You will be able to purchase 3 mulligans for $5 (up to a max of $10 for 6), which can be used anywhere on the course….so you can reputt a crucial putt, try again out of the sand, or rehit that drive that just went into the swamp. Proceeds of this event will go to the cancer unit at St. Joseph’s Hospital in Atlanta and I will make a donation on behalf of RSG golfers. So far, I have 3 golfers for the Friday rounds and 10 for the Saturday rounds and a few who have expressed interest, but are still on the fence. I will do everything to make this a very enjoyable weekend for all. September is a tough time to book times, as it is a busy time. So if you are interested, or on the fence, please e-mail me by Friday, 8/22 at the latest, it would be very much appreicated. And don’t hesitate to contact me with any questions or if you need help with lodging arrangements. About a week before, I will give the final update for this outing and include directions and a list of all participants. Look forward to it!!! Eric "the Hammer" Strulowitz