Question:
Time has proven the USGA wrong. If the Callaway ERC or other non-comforming clubs were much of an advantage, almost every European player would play them in European/Aussie/Japan etc. tournaments, they would consistently be in the bags of the winners. But this is not the case. The spring effect advantage is minimal. Certainly not ruining the game of golf.
That is certainly all true. I’m no fan of the USGA, but I would also point out that Callaway knew what the restrictions were and still went ahead and produced a non-conforming club. Maybe they did it to point out how stupid the USGA’s COR tests were, I don’t know.
Response:
Except none of these companies had been deemed to be illegal by any ruling body… particularly, one with which he had been closely associated, such as the USGA. If he actually felt that way about the Callaway club, he should have publicly disassociated himself from the USGA, knowing their stand on it. Why… why must you disassociate yourself from someone/something just because you don’t agree on a single issue?
That’s exactly right. If I had disassociated myself with everyone with whom I’d had a disagreement, I wouldn’t be friendly with ANYONE. Randy
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Except none of these companies had been deemed to be illegal by any ruling body… particularly, one with which he had been closely associated, such as the USGA. If he actually felt that way about the Callaway club, he should have publicly disassociated himself from the USGA, knowing their stand on it. Why… why must you disassociate yourself from someone/something just because you don’t agree on a single issue? That’s exactly right. If I had disassociated myself with everyone with whom I’d had a disagreement, I wouldn’t be friendly with ANYONE. Randy
I agree, as long as we are talking about someone who is not specifically representing an organization or company. Can you imagine the Vice-President of Ford Motor Co. announcing that he believed a Ford product was responsible for the blowouts and roll overs that their SUVs experiemced, rather than the Firestone tires? Common practise would be for him to disassociate himself from Ford before he took that step. You may be sure that if he didn’t he would be gone immediately afterward and would have a helluva time getting another position with anyone. (except maybe with Firestone :} )
Response:
I disagree with Arnie’s promotion of non-conforming equipment, particularly while he was still the honorary membership chairman of the USGA. But I also think that he sincerely believes that the golf products he promotes will make the game more enjoyable for the average weekend hacker.
I pretty much agree with your comments, Dan, but with one caveat. Unfortunately, the "average weekend golfer" believes Arnold, at several hundred dollars a pop. Though I’d never spend that kind of money on a golf club, I know several people who have and the end result has been just as the manufacturer states… really long, but usually just farther out in the rough or woods when they push, pull, hook or slice. Maybe an extra ten yards on the roll after they’ve topped the drive, will make it all worthwhile. Does that one in ten long drive make it worth the money? If you believe Callaway and/or Arnold Palmer, it does… you’re just not told how seldom it will actually happen. Let me add, as far as I’m aware, this may be the ONLY time I’ve disagreed with Arnold Palmer on anything. He’s certainly one of my golf heroes, and I have had quite a few, starting way back with Chick Evans.
Response:
Except none of these companies had been deemed to be illegal by any ruling body… particularly, one with which he had been closely associated, such as the USGA. If he actually felt that way about the Callaway club, he should have publicly disassociated himself from the USGA, knowing their stand on it.
Why… why must you disassociate yourself from someone/something just because you don’t agree on a single issue? I actually admire him for stanging up and taking a stand knowing it would not be popular. I don’t think he was motivated by money. I beleive that the game of golf is about ready for split rules. The current set would be for competitive golf at all levels. A relaxed version for all non-compteitivy play. dsc
Response:
Well, duh, of course there was an "economic factor" involved. You think these guys do these commercials for free? Arnie has been one of advertising’s most highly paid spokespersons for decades, from his years of doing Hertz ads with O.J. Simpson, to selling Pennzoil to just about everything else. His deal with Callaway is no different.
Except none of these companies had been deemed to be illegal by any ruling body… particularly, one with which he had been closely associated, such as the USGA. If he actually felt that way about the Callaway club, he should have publicly disassociated himself from the USGA, knowing their stand on it. It would certainly lower my esteem for this man if I felt he took the money but, did not really expect the club would basically stand up to the manufacturer’s claims.
Response:
Time has proven the USGA wrong. If the Callaway ERC or other non-comforming clubs were much of an advantage, almost every European player would play them in European/Aussie/Japan etc. tournaments, they would consistently be in the bags of the winners. But this is not the case. The spring effect advantage is minimal. Certainly not ruining the game of golf. tim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night watching TV late at night I ran over a TV ad from callaway and his new carbon driver that features Arnold Palmer. I regard Mr. Palmer as one of the best Golf Pros and for what I’ve read a great human being, but I have to say that his image became a little tarnished after seeing him in this ad. After all the controversy about the non-conforming driver and Mr. Palmer support for it, you start to wonder if there wasn’t a economical factor involved, maybe he owns big stock in callaway. I still like and respect him, but his stature shrunk a tinny bit last night. Quique Arnold Palmer is one of the wealthiest sports figures in the world. He has a tremendously successful golf course management business and course design firm. I believe he donates all of his outside and endorsement income to charity. If you are going to knock him off the pedestal, financial gain is the wrong reason. I disagree with Arnie’s promotion of non-conforming equipment, particularly while he was still the honorary membership chairman of the USGA. But I also think that he sincerely believes that the golf products he promotes will make the game more enjoyable for the average weekend hacker. — Dan Driscoll Member USGA, NCGA RSG FAQ: http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html RSG Roll Call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=driscolld
Response:
After all the controversy about the non-conforming driver and Mr. Palmer support for it, you start to wonder if there wasn’t a economical factor involved, maybe he owns big stock in callaway.
No, Arnie has a big stake in golf course design — you know, those folks who get called in to update courses made obsolete by all this new technology 
Kidding aside, I’m sure Arnold Palmer isn’t acting out of any financial motive, but that he believes the average weekend golfer will have more fun with the clubs and it won’t hurt the state of the game to let those folks get a few more yards. It’s a controversial opinion, and one I don’t happen to agree with personally, but I’m sure he has no hidden agendas in expressing it. — http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery )
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After all the controversy about the non-conforming driver and Mr. Palmer support for it, you start to wonder if there wasn’t a economical factor involved, maybe he owns big stock in callaway. No, Arnie has a big stake in golf course design — you know, those folks who get called in to update courses made obsolete by all this new technology Kidding aside, I’m sure Arnold Palmer isn’t acting out of any financial motive, but that he believes the average weekend golfer will have more fun with the clubs and it won’t hurt the state of the game to let those folks get a few more yards. It’s a controversial opinion, and one I don’t happen to agree with personally, but I’m sure he has no hidden agendas in expressing it. —
It’s not a hidden agenda, Arnold has a 12 year endorsement deal with Callaway although not for the ERCII. Here’s a quote: "The fact that Palmer has an endorsement deal with Callaway – for 12 years, at that – made most people suspicious, but The King scotched that quickly. "This has nothing to do with my contract," he said. "I don’t have to do this. It says nothing about me doing anything like this and if I never did, it wouldn’t have meant a damn bit of difference. My contract [with Callaway] pertains to golf balls only. I volunteered to say that I was going to play the club. I did that on my own." Ely Callaway added this: "He can’t be bought. He has more money than Callaway Golf. He simply had a change of mind at the age of 71, probably based on more distance."" http://www.thegolfnetwork.com/news/Nov27/spga.htm Although most sports figures can be bought otherwise they probably wouldn’t do endorsements right? I do however think Arnold really believes what he says about the recreational golfer and his game although I doubt he would have publicly aired his opinion on the ERCII if it wasn’t for his friendship with Ely and the relationship with Callaway. Dar
Response:
Kessler criticized him regarding his support for the ERC II. For something really interesting, check out Palmer’s article on the rules of golf in this month’s Golf Digest.
English still gives troubles, even when it has been more than 20 years that I swam the Rio Grande. Let me tell you, swimming with my golf bag was and ordeal, I almost drowned 2 times, the clubs came handy though killing few rattlers. I should have used the present time and said that it would be interesting to know what is he thinking right now. — Quique, http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=borregoenrique
Response:
What leads you to believe that he donates all of his endorsement money to charity?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night watching TV late at night I ran over a TV ad from callaway and his new carbon driver that features Arnold Palmer. I regard Mr. Palmer as one of the best Golf Pros and for what I’ve read a great human being, but I have to say that his image became a little tarnished after seeing him in this ad. After all the controversy about the non-conforming driver and Mr. Palmer support for it, you start to wonder if there wasn’t a economical factor involved, maybe he owns big stock in callaway. I still like and respect him, but his stature shrunk a tinny bit last night. Quique Arnold Palmer is one of the wealthiest sports figures in the world. He has a tremendously successful golf course management business and course design firm. I believe he donates all of his outside and endorsement income to charity. If you are going to knock him off the pedestal, financial gain is the wrong reason. I disagree with Arnie’s promotion of non-conforming equipment, particularly while he was still the honorary membership chairman of the USGA. But I also think that he sincerely believes that the golf products he promotes will make the game more enjoyable for the average weekend hacker. — Dan Driscoll Member USGA, NCGA RSG FAQ: http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html RSG Roll Call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=driscolld
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, duh, of course there was an "economic factor" involved. You think these guys do these commercials for free? My point was that he was making a big deal about the non-conforming driver, getting involved in a big controversy with the USGA, stating that his only and only motive in doing this was to make the golf game easier and more enjoyable to hackers like me. Now you see him peddling callaway products, hmmm…… makes you wonder? I don’t criticize him for trying to make a buck or two. (probably more like several million bucks). I’m in business my self to try to make as much money as I can, the more the better , but without selling my integrity. It would be interesting to hear what Peter Kessler thinks about this.
Kessler criticized him regarding his support for the ERC II. For something really interesting, check out Palmer’s article on the rules of golf in this month’s Golf Digest. — CA Remove NoSpam to email me directly. Troll intolerant. I took the RSG 2002 Pledge.
Response:
Well, duh, of course there was an "economic factor" involved. You think these guys do these commercials for free?
My point was that he was making a big deal about the non-conforming driver, getting involved in a big controversy with the USGA, stating that his only and only motive in doing this was to make the golf game easier and more enjoyable to hackers like me. Now you see him peddling callaway products, hmmm…… makes you wonder? I don’t criticize him for trying to make a buck or two. (probably more like several million bucks). I’m in business my self to try to make as much money as I can, the more the better , but without selling my integrity. It would be interesting to hear what Peter Kessler thinks about this.
Arnie has been one of – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – advertising’s most highly paid spokespersons for decades, from his years of doing Hertz ads with O.J. Simpson, to selling Pennzoil to just about everything else. His deal with Callaway is no different. — Randy Troll intolerant. I took the RSG 2002 Pledge. "Smoke ‘em out … dead or alive, I don’t care." - G. Bush I do not patronize those who advertise in RSG. RSG-ATLANTA 2002 – www.YouGoGolf.com/rsga.org Golf on the web – www.YouGoGolf.com Last night watching TV late at night I ran over a TV ad from callaway and his new carbon driver that features Arnold Palmer. I regard Mr. Palmer as one of the best Golf Pros and for what I’ve read a great human being, but I have to say that his image became a little tarnished after seeing him in this ad. After all the controversy about the non-conforming driver and Mr. Palmer support for it, you start to wonder if there wasn’t a economical factor involved, maybe he owns big stock in callaway. I still like and respect him, but his stature shrunk a tinny bit last night. Quique
Response:
Arnold Palmer is one of the wealthiest sports figures in the world. He has a tremendously successful golf course management business and course design firm. I believe he donates all of his outside and endorsement income to charity. If you are going to knock him off the pedestal, financial gain is the wrong reason.
For a long time, he owned the car dealership that sold more than any other in the country (possibly the world). Mostly to fleets.
Response:
Well, duh, of course there was an "economic factor" involved. You think these guys do these commercials for free? Arnie has been one of advertising’s most highly paid spokespersons for decades, from his years of doing Hertz ads with O.J. Simpson, to selling Pennzoil to just about everything else. His deal with Callaway is no different. — Randy Troll intolerant. I took the RSG 2002 Pledge. "Smoke ‘em out … dead or alive, I don’t care." - G. Bush I do not patronize those who advertise in RSG. RSG-ATLANTA 2002 – www.YouGoGolf.com/rsga.org Golf on the web – www.YouGoGolf.com
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night watching TV late at night I ran over a TV ad from callaway and his new carbon driver that features Arnold Palmer. I regard Mr. Palmer as one of the best Golf Pros and for what I’ve read a great human being, but I have to say that his image became a little tarnished after seeing him in this ad. After all the controversy about the non-conforming driver and Mr. Palmer support for it, you start to wonder if there wasn’t a economical factor involved, maybe he owns big stock in callaway. I still like and respect him, but his stature shrunk a tinny bit last night. Quique
Response:
Last night watching TV late at night I ran over a TV ad from callaway and his new carbon driver that features Arnold Palmer. I regard Mr. Palmer as one of the best Golf Pros and for what I’ve read a great human being, but I have to say that his image became a little tarnished after seeing him in this ad. After all the controversy about the non-conforming driver and Mr. Palmer support for it, you start to wonder if there wasn’t a economical factor involved, maybe he owns big stock in callaway. I still like and respect him, but his stature shrunk a tinny bit last night. Quique
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night watching TV late at night I ran over a TV ad from callaway and his new carbon driver that features Arnold Palmer. I regard Mr. Palmer as one of the best Golf Pros and for what I’ve read a great human being, but I have to say that his image became a little tarnished after seeing him in this ad. After all the controversy about the non-conforming driver and Mr. Palmer support for it, you start to wonder if there wasn’t a economical factor involved, maybe he owns big stock in callaway. I still like and respect him, but his stature shrunk a tinny bit last night. Quique
Arnold Palmer is one of the wealthiest sports figures in the world. He has a tremendously successful golf course management business and course design firm. I believe he donates all of his outside and endorsement income to charity. If you are going to knock him off the pedestal, financial gain is the wrong reason. I disagree with Arnie’s promotion of non-conforming equipment, particularly while he was still the honorary membership chairman of the USGA. But I also think that he sincerely believes that the golf products he promotes will make the game more enjoyable for the average weekend hacker. — Dan Driscoll Member USGA, NCGA RSG FAQ: http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html RSG Roll Call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=driscolld