Question:
Can I ask a dumb question? What is 431 steel? RR E-mail should be sent to rcdevil at sprint dot ca.
Response:
This is an interesting seires of posts. While I’ll agree that shaft flex is important, there are a myrid of factors that are critical when fitting clubs. I don’t think I would say that shaft flex is more important than swingweight or club length (tpoole, maybe you were assuming standard club length? However, I’m not sure). Also, if you are going to error on shaft flex, it’s better to error on the more flex side than it is to error on the stiffer side (I.e., it’s better to play a more flexible shaft than a overly stiff shaft for your swing speed). That’s one reason I find your comment, "I have noticed that I swing more confidently" interesting." given that you went from a regular flex to a stiffer flex. Regardless, if you’ve got the swing, you can make just about anything ‘work for you.’ Examply, give Big Mac a crappy wooden bat and I bet you he’ll still break Rodger’s HR record. Further, who ever said that "The club head means nothing. You have to be properly fitted for shafts." is way off the mark. If the club head meant nothing, we would’t have perimiter weighting, blades, cavity backed, et cetera. FWIW, Michael S. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I couldn’t agree more about the importance of Shaft flex. This is the single most important factor in choosing the correct clubs. For years I played knock off club with the incorrect flex. The clubs hit very well and I still like the way that they play, but the shaft flex was only a regular flex and pretty weak. Now that I play stiff clubs, I have noticed that I swing more confidently, but I don’t truly feel that it is the brand name of the clubs that make the difference.. It ain’t the pistol, it’s the marksman. I use knockoffs and cannot beleive that I am at a disadvantage. My $100 driver goes as far as any $600 driver, if I am using it. Spend the money you save on lessons. "Find your game"? nevermind, just enjoy it. Scott. I have used BRAND NAME clubs and I recently changed to "knock-offs", for lack of a better description. My game has improved. I have read some of the comments this post has generated and…. 1) "imitations don’t perform like originals"?????? Whaaaat? My understanding is that the only difference the average golfer will feel is in the wallet. What does performance have to do with it. The club head means nothing. You have to be properly fitted for shafts. I had a set of PING ZINGS with a Karsten 101 shaft. Guess what…..they perfomed like shit. Why…..a 101 shaft is frequency rated as a LADY’s shaft, but they were sold as MEN’s Regualr Flex. Too whippy for me. God knows what it cost me until I found out. PING did nothing for me, club or company. My PING ZING metal woods….bye bye…..once again, shaft is garbage. I now use Super Concorde’s. They are the ORIGINAL Tight Lies. (So, do you buy the BRAND NAME "tight lies" which is a clone of the Super Concorde or….I am confused already.) But, my Super Concorde’s are GREAT. I hit these clubs with CONFIDENCE and I like what I do with them. Please, these guys are the WORST in the industry. The original cut and paste guys. I heard a story from a good friend who took a club making course from them. The instructor was such an "expert" the club head flew off of one of the students clubs made in class, when taken to the golf course. My advice….go to a professional club maker (PCS) and get a custom set of clubs made, fitted to you. You are in the price range. 3) "…usually sub quality…" When was the last time you heard someone hit a golf ball and the club head broke? I said CLUB HEAD, not shaft, there is a difference. Sub Quality compared to what? Stainless Steel 431, last time I looked is stainless steel. Or, do we believe that special slow drying in special ovens is going to make PING’s steel better then Calloway’s steel? NOT! I have NEVER heard of a steel club head acting "sub-quality" when hitting a golf ball. They are basically all the same. The marketing BS, however, is different. I mean, really now…… Alpha Meraging makes the ball go farther, Bubble Shaft makes the ball go farther, Tungsten insert makes the ball go farther, Fancy S2H2 (related to R2D2?) hosels make the ball go farther, BIG HEADS make the ball go farther, OVERSIZE makes the ball go farther, GREG NORMAN guarantees the offset COBRAS are slice proof, REALLY? WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME IRON BYRON PLAYED A ROUND OF GOLF? Yet, the machine and the clubs it uses always hit the ball farther and farther, according to the commercials. Has anyone ever seen how much FANCY metal is in a Tri-Metal. Not much. Get a clone at half the price. And BTW, I marshalled a charity golf tournament recently and took note of what the average golfer was using in the bag. Most of the players pulled out a Calloway or Taylor Made or some equally expensive club. Guess what…..SLASH, SLASH, SLASH, SLASH……that is all I saw all day long. Shot gun format, two groups of 4 golfers to every tee and the VAST MAJORITY of these guys couldn’t hit a golf ball to save their lives. But, they had the BIG BUCK driver in the bag. I guess to impress the next guy who couldn’t hit a golf ball, either. Wow……THESE brand name clubs sure performed!! I saw more slices then a short order cook at a sub shop. "FIND YOUR GAME" took on a whole new meaning. One last story, I was in San Francisco on business and played a round of golf there. I rented a set of clubs. The WORST SET ever, retail price, maybe, $29.95 at Walmart. Aweful, just aweful set and guess what….I shot a few strokes higher then I usually play. Probably because I did not know the course. The clubs acted like clubs and even in their SUB QUALITY, did not break or any other non-sense. I hit the ball just as far and putted just a poorly as ever. Go get the clones and sleep easy at night knowing you saved a ton of money. Don’t get sucked in by BIG MANUFACTURERS with BIG marketing budgets and more BS that you or I could ever shake a golf stick at. My game is a 12.3 index, with clones. Spend your money on a good set of shafts fitted to your swing. Forget the BS the big manufacturer is trying to sell you.
Response:
I couldn’t agree more about the importance of Shaft flex. This is the single most important factor in choosing the correct clubs. For years I played knock off club with the incorrect flex. The clubs hit very well and I still like the way that they play, but the shaft flex was only a regular flex and pretty weak. Now that I play stiff clubs, I have noticed that I swing more confidently, but I don’t truly feel that it is the brand name of the clubs that make the difference.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It ain’t the pistol, it’s the marksman. I use knockoffs and cannot beleive that I am at a disadvantage. My $100 driver goes as far as any $600 driver, if I am using it. Spend the money you save on lessons. "Find your game"? nevermind, just enjoy it. Scott. I have used BRAND NAME clubs and I recently changed to "knock-offs", for lack of a better description. My game has improved. I have read some of the comments this post has generated and…. 1) "imitations don’t perform like originals"?????? Whaaaat? My understanding is that the only difference the average golfer will feel is in the wallet. What does performance have to do with it. The club head means nothing. You have to be properly fitted for shafts. I had a set of PING ZINGS with a Karsten 101 shaft. Guess what…..they perfomed like shit. Why…..a 101 shaft is frequency rated as a LADY’s shaft, but they were sold as MEN’s Regualr Flex. Too whippy for me. God knows what it cost me until I found out. PING did nothing for me, club or company. My PING ZING metal woods….bye bye…..once again, shaft is garbage. I now use Super Concorde’s. They are the ORIGINAL Tight Lies. (So, do you buy the BRAND NAME "tight lies" which is a clone of the Super Concorde or….I am confused already.) But, my Super Concorde’s are GREAT. I hit these clubs with CONFIDENCE and I like what I do with them. Please, these guys are the WORST in the industry. The original cut and paste guys. I heard a story from a good friend who took a club making course from them. The instructor was such an "expert" the club head flew off of one of the students clubs made in class, when taken to the golf course. My advice….go to a professional club maker (PCS) and get a custom set of clubs made, fitted to you. You are in the price range. 3) "…usually sub quality…" When was the last time you heard someone hit a golf ball and the club head broke? I said CLUB HEAD, not shaft, there is a difference. Sub Quality compared to what? Stainless Steel 431, last time I looked is stainless steel. Or, do we believe that special slow drying in special ovens is going to make PING’s steel better then Calloway’s steel? NOT! I have NEVER heard of a steel club head acting "sub-quality" when hitting a golf ball. They are basically all the same. The marketing BS, however, is different. I mean, really now…… Alpha Meraging makes the ball go farther, Bubble Shaft makes the ball go farther, Tungsten insert makes the ball go farther, Fancy S2H2 (related to R2D2?) hosels make the ball go farther, BIG HEADS make the ball go farther, OVERSIZE makes the ball go farther, GREG NORMAN guarantees the offset COBRAS are slice proof, REALLY? WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME IRON BYRON PLAYED A ROUND OF GOLF? Yet, the machine and the clubs it uses always hit the ball farther and farther, according to the commercials. Has anyone ever seen how much FANCY metal is in a Tri-Metal. Not much. Get a clone at half the price. And BTW, I marshalled a charity golf tournament recently and took note of what the average golfer was using in the bag. Most of the players pulled out a Calloway or Taylor Made or some equally expensive club. Guess what…..SLASH, SLASH, SLASH, SLASH……that is all I saw all day long. Shot gun format, two groups of 4 golfers to every tee and the VAST MAJORITY of these guys couldn’t hit a golf ball to save their lives. But, they had the BIG BUCK driver in the bag. I guess to impress the next guy who couldn’t hit a golf ball, either. Wow……THESE brand name clubs sure performed!! I saw more slices then a short order cook at a sub shop. "FIND YOUR GAME" took on a whole new meaning. One last story, I was in San Francisco on business and played a round of golf there. I rented a set of clubs. The WORST SET ever, retail price, maybe, $29.95 at Walmart. Aweful, just aweful set and guess what….I shot a few strokes higher then I usually play. Probably because I did not know the course. The clubs acted like clubs and even in their SUB QUALITY, did not break or any other non-sense. I hit the ball just as far and putted just a poorly as ever. Go get the clones and sleep easy at night knowing you saved a ton of money. Don’t get sucked in by BIG MANUFACTURERS with BIG marketing budgets and more BS that you or I could ever shake a golf stick at. My game is a 12.3 index, with clones. Spend your money on a good set of shafts fitted to your swing. Forget the BS the big manufacturer is trying to sell you.
Response:
It ain’t the pistol, it’s the marksman. I use knockoffs and cannot beleive that I am at a disadvantage. My $100 driver goes as far as any $600 driver, if I am using it. Spend the money you save on lessons. "Find your game"? nevermind, just enjoy it. Scott. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have used BRAND NAME clubs and I recently changed to "knock-offs", for lack of a better description. My game has improved. I have read some of the comments this post has generated and…. 1) "imitations don’t perform like originals"?????? Whaaaat? My understanding is that the only difference the average golfer will feel is in the wallet. What does performance have to do with it. The club head means nothing. You have to be properly fitted for shafts. I had a set of PING ZINGS with a Karsten 101 shaft. Guess what…..they perfomed like shit. Why…..a 101 shaft is frequency rated as a LADY’s shaft, but they were sold as MEN’s Regualr Flex. Too whippy for me. God knows what it cost me until I found out. PING did nothing for me, club or company. My PING ZING metal woods….bye bye…..once again, shaft is garbage. I now use Super Concorde’s. They are the ORIGINAL Tight Lies. (So, do you buy the BRAND NAME "tight lies" which is a clone of the Super Concorde or….I am confused already.) But, my Super Concorde’s are GREAT. I hit these clubs with CONFIDENCE and I like what I do with them. Please, these guys are the WORST in the industry. The original cut and paste guys. I heard a story from a good friend who took a club making course from them. The instructor was such an "expert" the club head flew off of one of the students clubs made in class, when taken to the golf course. My advice….go to a professional club maker (PCS) and get a custom set of clubs made, fitted to you. You are in the price range. 3) "…usually sub quality…" When was the last time you heard someone hit a golf ball and the club head broke? I said CLUB HEAD, not shaft, there is a difference. Sub Quality compared to what? Stainless Steel 431, last time I looked is stainless steel. Or, do we believe that special slow drying in special ovens is going to make PING’s steel better then Calloway’s steel? NOT! I have NEVER heard of a steel club head acting "sub-quality" when hitting a golf ball. They are basically all the same. The marketing BS, however, is different. I mean, really now…… Alpha Meraging makes the ball go farther, Bubble Shaft makes the ball go farther, Tungsten insert makes the ball go farther, Fancy S2H2 (related to R2D2?) hosels make the ball go farther, BIG HEADS make the ball go farther, OVERSIZE makes the ball go farther, GREG NORMAN guarantees the offset COBRAS are slice proof, REALLY? WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME IRON BYRON PLAYED A ROUND OF GOLF? Yet, the machine and the clubs it uses always hit the ball farther and farther, according to the commercials. Has anyone ever seen how much FANCY metal is in a Tri-Metal. Not much. Get a clone at half the price. And BTW, I marshalled a charity golf tournament recently and took note of what the average golfer was using in the bag. Most of the players pulled out a Calloway or Taylor Made or some equally expensive club. Guess what…..SLASH, SLASH, SLASH, SLASH……that is all I saw all day long. Shot gun format, two groups of 4 golfers to every tee and the VAST MAJORITY of these guys couldn’t hit a golf ball to save their lives. But, they had the BIG BUCK driver in the bag. I guess to impress the next guy who couldn’t hit a golf ball, either. Wow……THESE brand name clubs sure performed!! I saw more slices then a short order cook at a sub shop. "FIND YOUR GAME" took on a whole new meaning. One last story, I was in San Francisco on business and played a round of golf there. I rented a set of clubs. The WORST SET ever, retail price, maybe, $29.95 at Walmart. Aweful, just aweful set and guess what….I shot a few strokes higher then I usually play. Probably because I did not know the course. The clubs acted like clubs and even in their SUB QUALITY, did not break or any other non-sense. I hit the ball just as far and putted just a poorly as ever. Go get the clones and sleep easy at night knowing you saved a ton of money. Don’t get sucked in by BIG MANUFACTURERS with BIG marketing budgets and more BS that you or I could ever shake a golf stick at. My game is a 12.3 index, with clones. Spend your money on a good set of shafts fitted to your swing. Forget the BS the big manufacturer is trying to sell you.
Response:
<<<cut for clarity 1) "imitations don’t perform like originals"?????? Whaaaat? My understanding is that the only difference the average golfer will feel is in the wallet. What does performance have to do with it. The club head means nothing. You have to be properly fitted for shafts.
This is the critical portion of this thread. If you go to your pro shop or discount shop, usually the shaft in the set will be a mid to low kick point shaft, similar to either Dynalite or TTLite. You will be asked to choose regular or stiff shaft. If the shafts are graphite, they will usually be low kick point graphite with high torque numbers (4 or greater). I can choose any shaft with any kick point at any price point to meet the requirements of a specific golfer. <<<more cuts I have NEVER heard of a steel club head acting "sub-quality" when hitting a golf ball. They are basically all the same. The marketing BS, however, is different.
I am currently working on two sets of irons for people at work. The heads are the Pro-Swing DDI Tour +. Both golfers like the performance of the new DCI irons. The DDI’s have similar features (thin top line, lots of weight low in the head, no offset) so I recommended them. As I said, they look similar, but I consider clones to be clubs that are intended to fool people that they are the actual pro line club. The critical fact is that I can choose the right shaft and set makeup for each golfer. One golfer hits his current PW about 140 yards using the old DCI with boron graphite shafts. I have recommended Dynamic Gold S300 with sensicore. These will give the feel of the graphite but give better accuracy. The second golfer hits his short irons very high but has trouble with his long irons. (currently uses old Callaway S2H2). I will be using the new FM Precision Tour Flighted Rifle, 6.5 flex. The tour flighted rifles are sold in sets, with the long irons having a low kick point and a high kick point in the short irons. This should solve his flight problems. This is NOT POSSIBLE for the average golfer. This is why I think your second set of clubs should be custom fitted. Next time you see Golf Digest "inside the bag", notice how often the pro’s are even using the same model shaft you can buy at the store. If Calloway GBB’s are so good when you buy them at the store, where are all those red Grafalloy ProLite shafts on the senior tour coming from? I recommend that people try the pro line clubs to see what design features work best with their swing. Actually, this is a little bit of a psych job, because I think 75% of the performance of a specific club head is psychological, provided the shaft is fitted correctly. I then find a head from one of my preferred suppliers (GSA, Pro-Swing or Trident) that has those features (thick top line, thin top line, low CG, weight high in the toe, no offset, variable offset, etc.). If someone is really adamant about looking like the pro line club, I will use Turin. I then spend 90% of the fitting effort on the shaft. What ever people think of the quality of component heads, there is no question that the shafts are as good, and in many cases better, than off the rack clubs. — Eric DeWilde Owner – Waveland Custom Golf Custom-Built, Custom-Fit Golf Clubs Regripping and Repair Services Available Senior Project Engineer Wabash Technologies – Advanced Developement Center The older I get, the better I used to be. Lee Trevino
Response:
Hey John-boy (please, Walton fans, don’t flame me….), If if means nothing, why do you pronounce your heads GREAT later?? No, the heads are important.
Oooops!! I guess I should have said, "MY SUPER CONCORDES WITH THE PROPERLY FITTED SHAFTS TO MY SWING ARE GREAT!". THEY ARE, I have not shot a round above 88 since I dumped my PINGS. Sorry, I will elaborate in greater detail, hence this longer winded reply. Well, if you bought them from someone as disreputable as some of the clone makers, they would not fit the clubs to you. The vast majority of Ping resellers will do a good job.
Hmmmmm, I bought them from the pro-shop of a club I used to belong to before I joined the current club I belong to. The PRO fitted me. I guess he was disreputable, but a really nice guy. Did you know him? What did he do to be disreputable? Everyone at the club loved the guy. Now you’re on a roll. Ping steel shafts are True Temper shafts of the kind most used on the PGA TOUR for years. Garbage, sure.
I really think YOU are on a roll, John-boy. The shafts in my mis-fitted set of PING ZING METAL WOODS matched the shafts in my originally mis-fitted set of PING ZING COPPER BERYLLIUM’s! Basically, Karsten 101 by Aldila GRAPHITE SHAFTS, dude-boy. AND JOHN-BOY, they are shit for me because they are ladies shafts and do not accomodate my swing speed. True Temper, who mentioned True Temper here? Right again??!? By being the worst, they are far and away the largest component maker in the world. They went from a garage to where they are by being the worst?? When I was at Golfsmiths, I was impressed by the high quality of all the employees, not just the high profile ones. Golfsmiths offers a money-back guarantee on their club making classes. How many people have asked for a refund? Zero.
John-boy, being the biggest does not equal being the best. Golfsmith is a profit making money machine. They are cut and glue guys. They teach cut and glue. Luckily, not everyone who goes to GOLFSMITH adhears to their preaching. PCS certified clubmakers are the best, John, just cuz you went to GOLFSMITH and wuz impressed does impress me with your wisdom. Big deal, you’re impressed by size. You are also probably impressed by CALLOWAY and their size. I will bet you think their TOUR FLEX graphite shaft is the BEST-IST too. Guess what, on a frequency machine, it is a LADY’s flex shaft as well. Wow, I am inpressed. But wait, it is on a men’s club……. Ping does not use 431 steel in their iron heads, BTW.
Thanks John-boy, I never said they did. They did however, run a series of ads showing under the microscope, how their steel cured (or dried, or coagulated or something!) better then some one elses steel. from your wrist to the ground and send in for a custom fitting. LOL! What does this mean to the short guy who stands up straight when he addresses the ball, or the tall guy who really slouches over?????? Like I said, I don’t think I ever heard of a golf club busting in half after hitting a golf ball. Golfsmiths offers a money-back guarantee on their club making classes.
John-boy, this is the best. Golfsmith advertises, "…COMMITMENT, Thousands of clubmakers stay current with their professions by joining the Golf Clubmakers Association (GCA), the largest clubmakers’ association in the world….blah, blah, blah. JOHN-BOY, did you know why they are the largest? I bet you don’t. CUZ…….you can write their test, you can flunk, they send you back the test with the ANSWERS and you can write it again, only this time, with the answers……Jumpin’ Geezusus, If only college worked this way. I would have saved my parents thousands. They also publish a newsletter. And some of their clubmakers write in on how great everything is. One wrote he uses a Black and Decker bench mate to run his entire clubmaking operation out of a very small apartment. Yup, Golfsmith is the best, John-boy. They published his letter and praised him for his style!! Oh, and John-boy—-CLONES ARE LEGAL, copies are ILLEGAL. Hence, a KING SNAKE golf club, which is a direct copy of a COBRA Golf Club, does not get buy US CUSTOMS, it gets siezed at the border. Hence, no more KING SNAKE. However, a DYNACRAFT Cooperhead is LEGAL, JOHN-BOY. Do you know why? And broke the law.
their money fighting lawsuits. Typically, if they are too close to a trademark or a patent, they get a letter from the big guys to CEASE and DESIST with an explanation of where they infringed, they change their clubs and the beat goes on……. The bottom line is, a club head is not what it is all about. Good Shafts, properly fitted by an expert club maker is the right way to go. Unless, of course you believe the BIGGEST BIG BERTHA ad I saw that said, and I QUOTE!: 1. Toed it, but still hit the fairway 2. Sliced it, but still hit the fairway 3. Poppeed it up, but still hit the fairway 4. Hooked it, but still hit the fairway 5. Heeled it, but still hit the fairway 6. Caught it thin, but still hit the fairway 7. Drop kicked it (rules lawyers, how many strokes?),but still hit the fairway 8. Topped it, ….you guess it….but still hit the fairway R O T F L O L Give my regards to Carl Paul next time he lets you use his drive at the Golfsmith tournament!!
Response:
<snip I mean, really now…… Alpha Meraging makes the ball go farther, Bubble Shaft makes the ball go farther, Tungsten insert makes the ball go farther, Fancy S2H2 (related to R2D2?) hosels make the ball go farther, BIG HEADS make the ball go farther, OVERSIZE makes the ball go farther, GREG NORMAN guarantees the offset COBRAS are slice proof,
These sort of claims, which you see all the time, always intrigue me. The question is never asked "Further than what?", and I usually can’t find any fine print on the advert to discover the answer. In regard to the last point, I use offset woods, but I can certainly slice with them when I want to (and sometimes when I don’t want to 
). Slice *proof*? Does this mean that if I hit a few slices with them I could get my money back? I’d like to see that! Colin Wilson Trentham Golf Club http://publishing.kyneton.net.au/trentham
Response:
1) "imitations don’t perform like originals"?????? Whaaaat? My understanding is that the only difference the average golfer will feel is in the wallet. What does performance have to do with it. The club head means nothing.
If if means nothing, why do you pronounce your heads GREAT later?? No, the heads are important. I had a set of PING ZINGS with a Karsten 101 shaft. Guess what…..they perfomed like shit. Why…..a 101 shaft is frequency rated as a LADY’s shaft, but they were sold as MEN’s Regualr Flex. Too whippy for me. God knows what it cost me until I found out.
Well, if you bought them from someone as disreputable as some of the clone makers, they would not fit the clubs to you. The vast majority of Ping resellers will do a good job. My PING ZING metal woods….bye bye…..once again, shaft is garbage.
Now you’re on a roll. Ping steel shafts are True Temper shafts of the kind most used on the PGA TOUR for years. Garbage, sure. I now use
Brand X. The one with the inferior shafts and the wonderful head, except heads don’t matter, right?? Please, these guys are the WORST in the industry.
Right again??!? By being the worst, they are far and away the largest component maker in the world. They went from a garage to where they are by being the worst?? When I was at Golfsmiths, I was impressed by the high quality of all the employees, not just the high profile ones. Golfsmiths offers a money-back guarantee on their club making classes. How many people have asked for a refund? Zero. Sub Quality compared to what? Stainless Steel 431, last time I looked is stainless steel. Or, do we believe that special slow drying in special ovens is going to make PING’s steel better then Calloway’s steel? NOT!
Ping does not use 431 steel in their iron heads, BTW. Go get the clones and sleep easy at night knowing you saved a ton of money.
And broke the law. Clones are not legal. Proper components are legal. -John Baima DFW Golf and the Java Swingweight Calculator http://rampages.onramp.net/~jbaima/
Response:
I have used BRAND NAME clubs and I recently changed to "knock-offs", for lack of a better description. My game has improved. I have read some of the comments this post has generated and…. 1) "imitations don’t perform like originals"?????? Whaaaat? My understanding is that the only difference the average golfer will feel is in the wallet. What does performance have to do with it. The club head means nothing. You have to be properly fitted for shafts. I had a set of PING ZINGS with a Karsten 101 shaft. Guess what…..they perfomed like shit. Why…..a 101 shaft is frequency rated as a LADY’s shaft, but they were sold as MEN’s Regualr Flex. Too whippy for me. God knows what it cost me until I found out. PING did nothing for me, club or company. My PING ZING metal woods….bye bye…..once again, shaft is garbage. I now use Super Concorde’s. They are the ORIGINAL Tight Lies. (So, do you buy the BRAND NAME "tight lies" which is a clone of the Super Concorde or….I am confused already.) But, my Super Concorde’s are GREAT. I hit these clubs with CONFIDENCE and I like what I do with them. Please, these guys are the WORST in the industry. The original cut and paste guys. I heard a story from a good friend who took a club making course from them. The instructor was such an "expert" the club head flew off of one of the students clubs made in class, when taken to the golf course. My advice….go to a professional club maker (PCS) and get a custom set of clubs made, fitted to you. You are in the price range. 3) "…usually sub quality…" When was the last time you heard someone hit a golf ball and the club head broke? I said CLUB HEAD, not shaft, there is a difference. Sub Quality compared to what? Stainless Steel 431, last time I looked is stainless steel. Or, do we believe that special slow drying in special ovens is going to make PING’s steel better then Calloway’s steel? NOT! I have NEVER heard of a steel club head acting "sub-quality" when hitting a golf ball. They are basically all the same. The marketing BS, however, is different. I mean, really now…… Alpha Meraging makes the ball go farther, Bubble Shaft makes the ball go farther, Tungsten insert makes the ball go farther, Fancy S2H2 (related to R2D2?) hosels make the ball go farther, BIG HEADS make the ball go farther, OVERSIZE makes the ball go farther, GREG NORMAN guarantees the offset COBRAS are slice proof, REALLY? WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME IRON BYRON PLAYED A ROUND OF GOLF? Yet, the machine and the clubs it uses always hit the ball farther and farther, according to the commercials. Has anyone ever seen how much FANCY metal is in a Tri-Metal. Not much. Get a clone at half the price. And BTW, I marshalled a charity golf tournament recently and took note of what the average golfer was using in the bag. Most of the players pulled out a Calloway or Taylor Made or some equally expensive club. Guess what…..SLASH, SLASH, SLASH, SLASH……that is all I saw all day long. Shot gun format, two groups of 4 golfers to every tee and the VAST MAJORITY of these guys couldn’t hit a golf ball to save their lives. But, they had the BIG BUCK driver in the bag. I guess to impress the next guy who couldn’t hit a golf ball, either. Wow……THESE brand name clubs sure performed!! I saw more slices then a short order cook at a sub shop. "FIND YOUR GAME" took on a whole new meaning. One last story, I was in San Francisco on business and played a round of golf there. I rented a set of clubs. The WORST SET ever, retail price, maybe, $29.95 at Walmart. Aweful, just aweful set and guess what….I shot a few strokes higher then I usually play. Probably because I did not know the course. The clubs acted like clubs and even in their SUB QUALITY, did not break or any other non-sense. I hit the ball just as far and putted just a poorly as ever. Go get the clones and sleep easy at night knowing you saved a ton of money. Don’t get sucked in by BIG MANUFACTURERS with BIG marketing budgets and more BS that you or I could ever shake a golf stick at. My game is a 12.3 index, with clones. Spend your money on a good set of shafts fitted to your swing. Forget the BS the big manufacturer is trying to sell you.
Response:
Eugene, Why not check "webauction.com" where you can get a good deal on some used but perfectly good used "name"clubs. For example, I got a set of used Ping ISK’s for $ 300.00. Don’t get imitations, they will not perform as the originals. AM – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have seen knock off Bertha Irons among other top brands available with graphite bubble shafts for very low prices. I know that these clubs violate potentially violate patents laws and all of those comments, but since I don’t have much to spend on a new set of irons and defintely cannot afford the real thing, are knockoffs generally reliable and good clubs. I’ve also considered the Pro Kennex irons with the graphite shaft and titanium insert which run around $290. That’s roughly what I’m willing to spend. Thanks in advance
Response:
Dont buy clubs that LOOK like other clubs, they wont perform and are usually subquality. If you dont have much to spend go with Golfsmith or Dynacraft. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have seen knock off Bertha Irons among other top brands available with graphite bubble shafts for very low prices. I know that these clubs violate potentially violate patents laws and all of those comments, but since I don’t have much to spend on a new set of irons and defintely cannot afford the real thing, are knockoffs generally reliable and good clubs. I’ve also considered the Pro Kennex irons with the graphite shaft and titanium insert which run around $290. That’s roughly what I’m willing to spend. Thanks in advance
Response:
I have seen knock off Bertha Irons among other top brands available with graphite bubble shafts for very low prices. I know that these clubs violate potentially violate patents laws and all of those comments, but since I don’t have much to spend on a new set of irons and defintely cannot afford the real thing, are knockoffs generally reliable and good clubs. I’ve also considered the Pro Kennex irons with the graphite shaft and titanium insert which run around $290. That’s roughly what I’m willing to spend. Thanks in advance