Question:
my god randy tell me it ain’t true!!!! 
is there a specific problem with calloway or is it a realization that there really is a lot of quality stuff out there …. inquiring minds want to know!! brett Haven’t made any decisions. If you’ve followed my earlier posts you know that I’ve gone through a series of club-bending exercises, adjusting the lie flatter, and now back to upright.
[snip rest of story] Randy – Just a thought here: you change and/or tinker with your equipment so much, maybe you never really give yourself a chance to get used to it. Maybe by shopping around for new stuff, you’re only exacerbating the problem. I know you like the toys, and if that’s your primary motivation, then don’t let me stand in your way, but I can’t help wondering what would happen to your game if you stayed with the same set and setup for an entire season. — "Help! Come see the violence inherent in the sysadmin!" -User Friendly.
Response:
my god randy tell me it ain’t true!!!! is there a specific problem with calloway or is it a realization that there really is a lot of quality stuff out there …. inquiring minds want to know!! brett
|There are plenty of good options, and you’ve identified a few. | |Do yourself a favor and ask around at your local pro shops to find out if |there will be any demo days in your area. Though the reps hate to do ‘em, |occasionally you’ll find that an enterprising local driving range operator |will assemble representatives from a bunch of manufacturers for a demo day |where they’re all present. I’ve found these to be incredibly helpful in |that you can hit various clubs side-by-side. | |In the coming weeks, there are a series of demo days coming through |Chattanooga, and I intend to check out several of the "toys." Believe it or |not, I’m actually thinking about something other than my Callaways. (Gasp!) | |Randy | |
|I am in the process of investigating replacing my old clubs. I am a high |handicapper (20) and I’m looking for very forgiving clubs. Also graphite. |I’ve been on the web, specifically to Golf Magazine and looked at their |clubtest comparisons. I was a little surprised to see that, by their |comments, the new Armour 845 and Cobra irons we NOT considered good for |high |handicappers but for double digit folks wanting to get to single digits. | |Basically, my research has found that the best would be Ping ISI-s or |Calloway X-12. Note that I have not gotten to the point where I’ve gone to |a pro shop and hit bunches of clubs. | |However, I’d like this newsgroup’s opinion on the subject. | |Thanks in advance and forgive me if I’m asking a redundant question. I |just |got newgroup access after being away for 8 months. | |Mike | | | |
Response:
well randy whatever happens i hope that you find some clubs that you like and you find the form you had before last season. |Haven’t made any decisions. If you’ve followed my earlier posts you know |that I’ve gone through a series of club-bending exercises, adjusting the lie |flatter, and now back to upright. yeah i’ve followed and it would seem that you are one of those guys that falls through the cracks as far as rules of thumb and clubmaking go. what may be beneficial is if you put together say a forged steel (cavity probably) 5i (<$30) and then with some experiementing and some trial and error try to find the lie that works for you. once you’ve got the 5i lie then buy your next set or irons (or adjust what you’ve got). this might be a useful approach to take … ? |So, I’m noodling on options. One is to keep what I’ve got. I’m even |thinking about graphite, though it’s really hard for me to get past the |inconsistency issues in graphite with irons. In woods, it’s fine, but I |view iron play to be more precision-oriented. Less torque is better. But |before I do anything, I’m planning on taking advantage of a series of demo |days that are scheduled in the next few weeks here at the driving range |where I practice. i don’t think you should let that argument sway your thoughts on graphite especially in light of guys like norman making the switch. while i personally don’t use it in my irons and probably wouldn’t benefit from it anyway, there are many who would. you might be one of them. |I’m intrigued by the new Titleist 981s, and I’ve thought about the Mizunos |many times. I’ve always like the look of the "Pro" clubs (and they feel |great when hitting in a cage). The new "Sure" is the in-between club — |sort of like the "Pro," but a touch more forgiving. Both brands’ "standard" |lie is a little flatter than the BB’s, which is right for me. But I’m gonna |A-B ‘em next to my Berthas before I do anything. Having learned to play |golf with Pings and now playing the BB’s for nearly 4 years, I’m used to D-0 |swingweight clubs, and I imagine that heavier clubs won’t be to my liking, |but you never know. I gotta admit, the Titleists feel pretty good. But |swinging in a store and hitting balls outdoors are two very different |things. realistically there are a lot of good clubs out there at the moment other than tm, callaway, mizuno, titleist and ping. i know we don’t share that idea but hit as many things as you can. you might suprise yourself. as for liking clubs to swingweight to d0, this should be trivial for any competent clubfitter. |One think I know is I won’t be hitting Taylor Mades. I hate that damn |Bubble Shaft. I found the Berthas to be significantly longer than the Pings |back when I switched. There may be something else longer than these. I’m |gonna shop. Whether or not I buy anything remains to be seen. i’m not the hugest fan of tm irons but the tours aren’t bad and they are available in rifle steel i believe. like i said hope you try out a lot of stuff and report your demos back to the group. above all i hope you find something you can be happy with. good luck brett
Response:
<stuff snipped And I’ve got a pretty good idea of what I’m looking for. Next to my BB’s, there are only two other clubs out there that have the feel I like, and both of ‘em are a little heavier than what I’m used to. The new Titleists feel REALLY sweet, and I’ve long thought the Mizuno Pro’s would be the clubs for me if I weren’t so doggone sold on my X-12s.
Demo the Mizuno Pros and at least try the Trues. The sensicore shafts are a great combination with the forged steel feel of the irons. I’ve hit the Pros and didn’t notice any loss of distance, just some loss of feel (solidness). After you fall in love with these, treat yourself to having the loft bent so you have the proper distance spread you desire between clubs. I did this with my Grads and after I get used to the Trues, I’ll do the same. For me its 16 yards (give or take) and makes a big difference (IMHO) with the playability of the clubs. <rest snipped Scott
Response:
Randy – I’m in Nashville. Do you know if any of those demos are going to make it up to Nashville? I’m seeking new clubs, and that would help. Thanks, Thomas Too err is human. To moo, bovine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – my god randy tell me it ain’t true!!!! is there a specific problem with calloway or is it a realization that there really is a lot of quality stuff out there …. inquiring minds want to know!! brett |There are plenty of good options, and you’ve identified a few. | |Do yourself a favor and ask around at your local pro shops to find out if |there will be any demo days in your area. Though the reps hate to do ‘em, |occasionally you’ll find that an enterprising local driving range operator |will assemble representatives from a bunch of manufacturers for a demo day |where they’re all present. I’ve found these to be incredibly helpful in |that you can hit various clubs side-by-side. | |In the coming weeks, there are a series of demo days coming through |Chattanooga, and I intend to check out several of the "toys." Believe it or |not, I’m actually thinking about something other than my Callaways. (Gasp!) | |Randy | | |I am in the process of investigating replacing my old clubs. I am a high |handicapper (20) and I’m looking for very forgiving clubs. Also graphite. |I’ve been on the web, specifically to Golf Magazine and looked at their |clubtest comparisons. I was a little surprised to see that, by their |comments, the new Armour 845 and Cobra irons we NOT considered good for |high |handicappers but for double digit folks wanting to get to single digits. | |Basically, my research has found that the best would be Ping ISI-s or |Calloway X-12. Note that I have not gotten to the point where I’ve gone to |a pro shop and hit bunches of clubs. | |However, I’d like this newsgroup’s opinion on the subject. | |Thanks in advance and forgive me if I’m asking a redundant question. I |just |got newgroup access after being away for 8 months. | |Mike | | | |
Response:
you change and/or tinker with your equipment so much, maybe you never really give yourself a chance to get used to it.
Yes and no. This past year has been quite the exception to the rule. Other than being an admitted "toy freak," and updating to the latest set of Pings (back when I played Pings — and oh, by the way, switching from one set of Pings to another isn’t that big of a deal), I’ve really been pretty consistent with my irons in the past 3 or 4 years. Played the ‘95 and ‘96 model BB’s exclusively (with no changes made to ‘em) until I went to the X-12’s. For the life of me, I’m not sure why I started fiddling with the lie. Probably because I knew they were too upright, but I was hitting them fine (yes, it was, in hindsight, a foolish sojourn to set off on, but a learning experience, nonetheless). Maybe by shopping around for new stuff, you’re only exacerbating the problem.
Maybe. But here’s the deal: I can’t change the past — what’s done is done. And now that I’ve bent my X-12’s to as much as 5-degrees (you read that right) flat (and by, golly, I actually measured that way — see previous post titled "Custom club fitting — BEWARE"), and now, having bent them back all the way to Callaway’s "standard," the darn things just don’t feel right. I’d been warned by someone I trust that the bending back AND FORTH of clubs can result in their having a strange "harmonic" (his word, not mine), and sure enough, I’m actually swinging pretty well right now, and yet, these clubs aren’t performing as they were before I started fiddling with ‘em. They’re damaged goods. So, I’m sort of stuck right now. I like the clubs I have (or I did before I ruined ‘em). But how stupid would I appear if I walked into a shop and traded a set of steel-shafted X-12s in on a set of steel-shafted X-12s? Duhhh… :-) I’m actually viewing this as a positive (turning lemons into lemonade, as it were). I’m gonna turn this unsettledness into an opportunity to "test drive" a number of different things. My gut hunch is that I’m not going to find anything I like better than what I’ve been playing. I say that because despite my seemingly being myopic about Callaways, I’ve always enjoyed hitting other clubs, if only into a cage at the golf shop, just to sample the feel of other equipment, and the truth is, there are a handful of other clubs I like the feel of. Whether or not they actually PERFORM for me as good as they feel is quite another matter. That’s what I hope to find out at these demo days. And I’ve got a pretty good idea of what I’m looking for. Next to my BB’s, there are only two other clubs out there that have the feel I like, and both of ‘em are a little heavier than what I’m used to. The new Titleists feel REALLY sweet, and I’ve long thought the Mizuno Pro’s would be the clubs for me if I weren’t so doggone sold on my X-12s. I know you like the toys, and if that’s your primary motivation, then don’t let me stand in your way, but I can’t help wondering what would happen to your game if you stayed with the same set and setup for an entire season.
Believe me, I’m well aware of this. Actually, I bounce around a heckuva lot more with drivers and putters (putters, especially). This whole bending of the irons ordeal has been extraordinarily frustrating for me. But like I said, I feel now like my present clubs are "damaged goods." Rest assured, however, that I will not make a hasty decision (as has been my tendency in years past). Not only will I take the time to sample the clubs I’m interested in, side-by-side with what I’ve got, but I will also not make a change if I’m not happy with my SWING at the time. Right now, it’s pretty good. I’m just not getting the results I’m looking for, even when I’m hitting the ball solidly. It is my intent to find something and settle on it (at least for a year or two). Which is what I’d pretty much done before I started futzing with these X12s. Lesson learned. Now I just have to figure out what the next step will be. Randy
Response:
my god randy tell me it ain’t true!!!! is there a specific problem with calloway or is it a realization that there really is a lot of quality stuff out there …. inquiring minds want to know!! brett
Haven’t made any decisions. If you’ve followed my earlier posts you know that I’ve gone through a series of club-bending exercises, adjusting the lie flatter, and now back to upright. As some club repair people will tell you (and others will disagree), once you’ve bent clubs back and forth, they can somehow not be quite the same once they’re put back in their "original" condition (which is where mine are now). Something about the harmonics, I guess. Callaways, as most know, are a degree or two more upright than most other manufacturers (and clearly more upright than is a good fit for me). But whenever I bend the darn things flatter, I can’t hit ‘em worth sh*t. Go figure. They just feel awful when I bend ‘em flat, even though I undoubtedly measure one-or-two degrees flat. So, I’m noodling on options. One is to keep what I’ve got. I’m even thinking about graphite, though it’s really hard for me to get past the inconsistency issues in graphite with irons. In woods, it’s fine, but I view iron play to be more precision-oriented. Less torque is better. But before I do anything, I’m planning on taking advantage of a series of demo days that are scheduled in the next few weeks here at the driving range where I practice. I’m intrigued by the new Titleist 981s, and I’ve thought about the Mizunos many times. I’ve always like the look of the "Pro" clubs (and they feel great when hitting in a cage). The new "Sure" is the in-between club — sort of like the "Pro," but a touch more forgiving. Both brands’ "standard" lie is a little flatter than the BB’s, which is right for me. But I’m gonna A-B ‘em next to my Berthas before I do anything. Having learned to play golf with Pings and now playing the BB’s for nearly 4 years, I’m used to D-0 swingweight clubs, and I imagine that heavier clubs won’t be to my liking, but you never know. I gotta admit, the Titleists feel pretty good. But swinging in a store and hitting balls outdoors are two very different things. There’s nothing to report right now except that I’m entering the new golf season with an open mind. And a moderate level of frustration stemming from the fact that the multiple bending of my BB’s has left them…uh…shall we say…somehow less than sweet-feeling, as they were before I began this sojourn. Even when I hit ‘em solid, they’re not performing like they did before I started fiddling with ‘em. I may also wait for the "less offset" Berthas. Everything about Callaways is set up to reduce a slice. The upright lie, the weight distribution in the heads. And of course, the offset. Frankly, however, I’m not a slicer, so I don’t need the "help" (my mistake is usually left). The "less offset" clubs may be better for me. Don’t know yet. No decision will come until I’ve hit everything I’m curious about. Hopefully the Callaway rep will have some of the new irons in his bag when he does the demo day. One think I know is I won’t be hitting Taylor Mades. I hate that damn Bubble Shaft. I found the Berthas to be significantly longer than the Pings back when I switched. There may be something else longer than these. I’m gonna shop. Whether or not I buy anything remains to be seen. Randy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – |There are plenty of good options, and you’ve identified a few. | |Do yourself a favor and ask around at your local pro shops to find out if |there will be any demo days in your area. Though the reps hate to do ‘em, |occasionally you’ll find that an enterprising local driving range operator |will assemble representatives from a bunch of manufacturers for a demo day |where they’re all present. I’ve found these to be incredibly helpful in |that you can hit various clubs side-by-side. | |In the coming weeks, there are a series of demo days coming through |Chattanooga, and I intend to check out several of the "toys." Believe it or |not, I’m actually thinking about something other than my Callaways. (Gasp!) | |Randy | | |I am in the process of investigating replacing my old clubs. I am a high |handicapper (20) and I’m looking for very forgiving clubs. Also graphite. |I’ve been on the web, specifically to Golf Magazine and looked at their |clubtest comparisons. I was a little surprised to see that, by their |comments, the new Armour 845 and Cobra irons we NOT considered good for |high |handicappers but for double digit folks wanting to get to single digits. | |Basically, my research has found that the best would be Ping ISI-s or |Calloway X-12. Note that I have not gotten to the point where I’ve gone to |a pro shop and hit bunches of clubs. | |However, I’d like this newsgroup’s opinion on the subject. | |Thanks in advance and forgive me if I’m asking a redundant question. I |just |got newgroup access after being away for 8 months. | |Mike | | | |
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am in the process of investigating replacing my old clubs. I am a high handicapper (20) and I’m looking for very forgiving clubs. Also graphite. I’ve been on the web, specifically to Golf Magazine and looked at their clubtest comparisons. I was a little surprised to see that, by their comments, the new Armour 845 and Cobra irons we NOT considered good for high handicappers but for double digit folks wanting to get to single digits. Basically, my research has found that the best would be Ping ISI-s or Calloway X-12. Note that I have not gotten to the point where I’ve gone to a pro shop and hit bunches of clubs. However, I’d like this newsgroup’s opinion on the subject. Thanks in advance and forgive me if I’m asking a redundant question. I just got newgroup access after being away for 8 months. Mike
Michael, just try the Mizuno T-Zoid Trues – I firmly believe you’ll be stunned at how much better that club is than some of the cast, perimeter weighted, and oversized clubs on the market. Golf.com has a review section and the Trues received extremely high marks even from high handicappers. In fact, the high handicappers to a man said essentially, "I’m glad I didn’t listen to the salesman. Best clubs I’ve ever hit." Don’t listen to what anyone says about game improvement this or that. Get fitted so you have the proper lie and shaft flex. There was an article (in either Golf Magazine or Golf Digest) last year or perhaps two years ago regarding game improvement irons and traditional blades. The test showed that blades were more accurate and if the lofts were the same, generally longer even on mishits. Just give them a shot. Good luck. Scott
Response:
There are plenty of good options, and you’ve identified a few. Do yourself a favor and ask around at your local pro shops to find out if there will be any demo days in your area. Though the reps hate to do ‘em, occasionally you’ll find that an enterprising local driving range operator will assemble representatives from a bunch of manufacturers for a demo day where they’re all present. I’ve found these to be incredibly helpful in that you can hit various clubs side-by-side. In the coming weeks, there are a series of demo days coming through Chattanooga, and I intend to check out several of the "toys." Believe it or not, I’m actually thinking about something other than my Callaways. (Gasp!) Randy
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am in the process of investigating replacing my old clubs. I am a high handicapper (20) and I’m looking for very forgiving clubs. Also graphite. I’ve been on the web, specifically to Golf Magazine and looked at their clubtest comparisons. I was a little surprised to see that, by their comments, the new Armour 845 and Cobra irons we NOT considered good for high handicappers but for double digit folks wanting to get to single digits. Basically, my research has found that the best would be Ping ISI-s or Calloway X-12. Note that I have not gotten to the point where I’ve gone to a pro shop and hit bunches of clubs. However, I’d like this newsgroup’s opinion on the subject. Thanks in advance and forgive me if I’m asking a redundant question. I just got newgroup access after being away for 8 months. Mike
Response:
You’ll see these buzzwords on a number of clubs.
The problem with "buzzwords" is that it’s a buzzword Cheers Colin Wilson Trentham Golf Club http://publishing.kyneton.net.au/trentham
Response:
Try a lot of clubs. Pick one that feels good. And don’t listen to any advice you get on picking golf clubs :) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am in the process of investigating replacing my old clubs. I am a high handicapper (20) and I’m looking for very forgiving clubs. Also graphite. I’ve been on the web, specifically to Golf Magazine and looked at their clubtest comparisons. I was a little surprised to see that, by their comments, the new Armour 845 and Cobra irons we NOT considered good for high handicappers but for double digit folks wanting to get to single digits. Basically, my research has found that the best would be Ping ISI-s or Calloway X-12. Note that I have not gotten to the point where I’ve gone to a pro shop and hit bunches of clubs. However, I’d like this newsgroup’s opinion on the subject. Thanks in advance and forgive me if I’m asking a redundant question. I just got newgroup access after being away for 8 months. Mike
– Barry Smith