Question:
Nevertheless, he advertises his golf club business in a usenet group dedicated to golf. And gets a free pass from the bare knuckle boys, the Spam Police.
He doesn’t advertise it, he says where he’s coming from. This is important, because it means all his comments will be seen in that perspective. If I worked for, say, Callaway, I would put that affiliation in my .signature, because it would be important for this group. I think some his *posts* constitute Spam. What does everyone think when he gives a *great* recommendation for BangoMatic (sp?) drivers, made from components.
See what I mean? It’s a good thing that Mike tells us in his .signature that he is building clubs. Apart from that, he’s free to play anything he likes and he plays the Bang-O-Matic driver. Even if he built it himself and even if he would build one for you, he can still like it and say so here. Surely you aren’t expecting him to build clubs that he doesn’t believe in? What he doesn’t say is if you want one, he’s your man. I think he’s relying on people to put two and two together.
And some people fail at that 
offended however, by the treatment that Nicolas the "photo website diary" poster received at the hands of the band of thugs here.
Some people overreacted, I agree. But a band of thugs they are not. Ulrich
Response:
The Spam Police lost a lot of goodwill with their unwarranted (largely anyway) pummeling of Nicholas. WTF? What about Mike’s club business? That all added up to my first post on this subject. Here’s what I will do. I will not harass Mike, I’ve got better things to do than read his posts anyway – no offence, I’m just not interested in club making. Anytime I see someone getting beat up for Spam though, *even if it is justified*, I will repost my opinion on "Mike and Spamming" that I wrote in my previous post. I dislike all Spam. You should too. You’re like a cop who lets his buddies off when he catches them.
Screw you! I was the first to call attention to the fact that this web site had advertising attached….and I didn’t blame Nick. H changed hosting companies, and now its a great site…just pics of golf without having to worry about pop-ups and advertisements. I’m not an advocate of using sigs with one’s commercial interest in them, but its been an accepted practice here for a long time. But you wouldn’t know that. Post away with your opinions, no one cares. As far as SPAM police go, they’re the main reason that you can come here without a plethora of crappy ads that you have to wade through. ___, o | / . "Someone likes every shot" bk
Response:
Here’s what I will do. I will not harass Mike, I’ve got better things to do than read his posts anyway – no offence, I’m just not interested in club making. Anytime I see someone getting beat up for Spam though, *even if it is justified*, I will repost my opinion on "Mike and Spamming" that I wrote in my previous post.
And by doing so, will be far more disruptive than any true spam would be. I dislike all Spam. You should too. You’re like a cop who lets his buddies off when he catches them.
I’ll make up my own mind on what I do and do not like You’re like a cop who lets his buddies off when he catches them.
Sorry, but that’s bullshit. I do no such thing. The only time I ever say anything here about spam is when someone makes a lame attempt at stealth spam–the "I found a great website" post when the poster is the owner of the site. As a matter of fact, Mike and I have been on opposite sides of spam discussions in the past. My only concern is that I’d rather not see RSG become a place that is so full of advertising that it’s hard to find golf discussion. If you say you dislike spam, there has to be a reason. That’s mine. We’ve had people come in here and post a bunch of one liners (like ‘what’s your favorite irons?) just so they could put a link to an ebay auction in their sig file. That to me is abusing the system. I don’t know how long Mike has been posting here but it’s more than 4.5 years because that’s how long I’ve been participating. You, on the other hand, have been posting here less than a year best I can tell. If you’d been here than that you’d realize that Mike’s posting pattern has been rather consistent throughout. He isn’t suddenly posting about club making–he’s been doing so for years. Lot’s of other folks have started making their own clubs (me included) because of Mike’s encouragement. The fact that he has a link to his club making enterprise (again–a result of unsolicited demand) has not changed the kind of things he’s been posting about for years. That’s why I think your barking up the wrong tree here. Is he profiting from having that line in his sig? I bet he is. Does it do anything to degrade the quality of exchange in RSG. No! And that’s the bottom line. You are not being forced to read any advertising. Dave Clary/Corpus Christi, Tx Home: http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary RSG Roll Call http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=claryd
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – :I didn’t have a :problem with Nicholas site either but it’s like your doing this to exact some :revenge. : :My gripe isn’t with your forged vs cast take, it’s with the general swipe at :custom clubmakers saying that you’re likely to buy crap from them. Guess what? :You can buy excellent forged clubs via the component route as well with a better :chance that the clubs will be well matched. Earlier in the thread, brad (bless :his soul) agreed with ME on that point. By the way, I play Golfsmith forged :cavity backs. : 
ave Clary/Corpus Christi, Tx :Home: http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary :RSG Roll Call http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=claryd : Revenge? Well, I must admit Mike lost a little goodwill when he tried to put the squelch on discussions of golf mechanics, especially his crack about good golfers on the group not posting to those discussions. He lost a little more when he *himself* started a thread about golf mechanics. The Spam Police lost a lot of goodwill with their unwarranted (largely anyway) pummeling of Nicholas. WTF? What about Mike’s club business? That all added up to my first post on this subject. Here’s what I will do. I will not harass Mike, I’ve got better things to do than read his posts anyway – no offence, I’m just not interested in club making. Anytime I see someone getting beat up for Spam though, *even if it is justified*, I will repost my opinion on "Mike and Spamming" that I wrote in my previous post. I dislike all Spam. You should too. You’re like a cop who lets his buddies off when he catches them. Good golf to all. jmkanes
Are you as weird as you seem?
Response:
:I didn’t have a :problem with Nicholas site either but it’s like your doing this to exact some :revenge. : :My gripe isn’t with your forged vs cast take, it’s with the general swipe at :custom clubmakers saying that you’re likely to buy crap from them. Guess what? :You can buy excellent forged clubs via the component route as well with a better :chance that the clubs will be well matched. Earlier in the thread, brad (bless :his soul) agreed with ME on that point. By the way, I play Golfsmith forged :cavity backs. : ave Clary/Corpus Christi, Tx :Home: http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary :RSG Roll Call http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=claryd : Revenge? Well, I must admit Mike lost a little goodwill when he tried to put the squelch on discussions of golf mechanics, especially his crack about good golfers on the group not posting to those discussions. He lost a little more when he *himself* started a thread about golf mechanics. The Spam Police lost a lot of goodwill with their unwarranted (largely anyway) pummeling of Nicholas. WTF? What about Mike’s club business? That all added up to my first post on this subject. Here’s what I will do. I will not harass Mike, I’ve got better things to do than read his posts anyway – no offence, I’m just not interested in club making. Anytime I see someone getting beat up for Spam though, *even if it is justified*, I will repost my opinion on "Mike and Spamming" that I wrote in my previous post. I dislike all Spam. You should too. You’re like a cop who lets his buddies off when he catches them. Good golf to all. jmkanes
Response:
My definition of spamming is posting in a news group or posting emails to create business.
Well we obviously aren’t going to change each other’s mind so I guess it’s pointless to continue. But I’m going to throw in last comment. Mike has been posting here for several years–long before he started a basement club building business. His signature does NOTHING do disrupt this group and it is an accepted practice to put it in. I don’t see what there is to gain by continuing to bring it up and disrupting threads that were about golf. I didn’t have a problem with Nicholas site either but it’s like your doing this to exact some revenge. I’m not trying to mislead anyone by promoting forged golf clubs, just trying to even up the sides a bit.
My gripe isn’t with your forged vs cast take, it’s with the general swipe at custom clubmakers saying that you’re likely to buy crap from them. Guess what? You can buy excellent forged clubs via the component route as well with a better chance that the clubs will be well matched. Earlier in the thread, brad (bless his soul) agreed with ME on that point. By the way, I play Golfsmith forged cavity backs. Dave Clary/Corpus Christi, Tx Home: http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary RSG Roll Call http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=claryd
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let’s see. In most of his posts about clubmaking, he goes out of his way to explain to others how they can do it themselves. In this thread he was thanked by another poster for showing him a better way to do something. Yep, that’s a hell of a business plan. By most people’s definition, a spammer is someone who’s sole purpose for posting in an NG (or sending emails) is to create business If you had a clue, you’d realize MD doesn’t fit in that category. He was contributing here long before he hung up his clubdoctor shingle, and his clubmaking venture is basically a result of "unsolicited" requests by members of this NG during the Integra frenzy. Of course, that all happened long before you started posting here which would at least partially explain your ignorance. As long as I’m dishing out smack I might as well throw in one more. Your take on the "cast vs forged" thing is bs. I’m out! (uh oh, to much Jim Rome this week). Dave Clary/Corpus Christi, Tx
Two separate issues here, "Mike and Spamming" and then my take on "cast vs forged." Mike and Spamming My definition of spamming is posting in a news group or posting emails to create business. Your definition, including the words "sole purpose" opens the door to someone to use a little finesse to avoid the label. Usenet news groups will suffer if spam of any kind is tolerated. Mike is obviously an intelligent, tricky guy. His spam, in his signature is followed right up with a plea to "not tolerate spammers, help keep RSG spam free." You tend to walk away with the idea that this is a great guy, fighting spam right to the last line of his post. Nevertheless, he advertises his golf club business in a usenet group dedicated to golf. And gets a free pass from the bare knuckle boys, the Spam Police. I think some his *posts* constitute Spam. What does everyone think when he gives a *great* recommendation for BangoMatic (sp?) drivers, made from components. He knows that a few guys will make one for themselves out of components, but he is probably aware that many people would lack the confidence to "build their own" and just say, what the hell, why not just buy one from Mike? He complains about threads or posts about golf mechanics, says he never reads them, none of the great players on the group post to golf mechanics threads, blah, blah. I think that’s trying to discourage threads about golf mechanics, right? Why then does he himself start one about golf mechanics, or at least about swing videos concerning golf mechanics – all about AJ or something, just the *best*. Why? so he can slip in another plug for the Bangomatic driver. What he doesn’t say is if you want one, he’s your man. I think he’s relying on people to put two and two together. I think all his posts are SPAM, because of the signature. Some are doubly so, because of the obvious promotion of stuff he is capable of supplying to people, for profit – all the while presenting a squeaky clean "friend of rec.sport.golf". Gimme a break. I have been onto Mike for quite a while on this, but was content to just shrug my shoulders – there’s worse stuff happening in the world. I was offended however, by the treatment that Nicolas the "photo website diary" poster received at the hands of the band of thugs here. He was posting something for peoples entertainment only. Trying to run it on a shoestring, he apparently went for a "free website" that had popups as the "real" price. He had nothing to gain, other than saving himself $5 per month on the website fee. You would think he was a child molester by the treatment he got from the dreaded Spam Police. All the while Mike is running a probably *thriving* golf club business right here in our midst, where he walks on water. Well, fair is fair. He’s a SPAMMER, albeit a sophisticated and subtle one. He knows enough to include a warning against the evils of SPAM in his signature. He knows enough to throw in a few golf only posts before renewing his effort to promote his bangowhatevers. In other words, he’s a cagey guy, but still a SPAMMER. I’d rank him about a 50-60 percent spammer, compared to Nicolas who was about 2 percent. Fair is fair. If we’re against Spam, lets apply the rules to everyone, roughly equally. I’m not going to get off Mike’s case. The time limit is up on getting off the hook with his "declarations" and he doesn’t seem interested anyway, preferring to lie low and rely on his buddies to put up the "pristine image" for him. Mike’s probably a good guy, I don’t know. Certainly he’s made some good posts. But he is a spammer. I’m against spam in all it’s forms, subtle or blatant. Cast vs Forged As I said in one of my recent posts, forged carbon steel irons are losing the marketing wars pretty badly, as a result of some very good marketing and some fortunate quirks of fate. The fortunate quirk of fate is that they have been blessed with the moniker "game improvement irons". That is really fortunate – it gives the impression that if you’ve got a set of these babies, you hardly have to show up at the golf course – the clubs will shoot a nice 76 for you – on their own. Meanwhile, the forged blades are getting hung with the notion that you’ve got to be Tiger Woods or Ernie Els to play them. Wrong also. In an earlier edition of this discussion, *glfnaz*, bless his heart, pointed everyone to a golf magazine test, which tested forged blades against cast "game improvement" irons. The test conclusively proved that the game improvement irons don’t live up to the hype. The forged blades won the battle with tighter shot dispersions from a variety of flush and mis-hit shots compared to the cast, perimeter weighted clubs. Pardon me if I have misrepresented the test in any way – I still haven’t seen the article myself, I relying on my memory of the account given by glfnaz. Help me out again, glfnaz? I’m not trying to mislead anyone by promoting forged golf clubs, just trying to even up the sides a bit. I’m just suggesting that people give them a try, they might be pleasantly surprised. That said, my *opinion* is that they are better equipment than investment cast. Usenet groups are to allow people to express opinions and all are welcome, no? Eventually the truth will surface in people’s minds. Of all those wonderful golfers playing in the President’s cup today, I sure didn’t see many sets of investment cast. Charles Howell is the only one I can remember. At least I’m telling people what I honestly believe and yes I *have* hit balls with a certain famous brand of investment cast – didn’t like them but you are free to differ. I’ve also owned a set of stainless steel irons (remember wilson x31?). Didn’t like them either, no comparison to soft carbon steel, feelwise. They also had aluminum shafts (double ugh). As far as *clone* clubs are concerned, I read recently in one of the golf magazines (can’t remember which one but I will scurry around looking – to try to find an exact page citation and report back) an item warning people away from these – they can consist of a real hodge podge of mismatched golf clubs. Buyer beware. Guys that play with investment cast clubs and like them – that’s just great. Good for you, you have lots of company. Guys that are seeking advice of what to buy – look for me to promote forged carbon steel, for the *best* feedback, and for equipment that the best players in the world rely on to get the job done in the clutch. Why shouldn’t you have the best, when you know they are going to perform better than the others on day one(see test result above), and on every day after that – forever, right up to your appearance in the President’s Cup. Sorry for the wordy post and the delay in responding – these are important issues (calling somebody a spammer is serious) and standing up for my opinions is also important (to me). They require thought and care – plus I wuz watching the Presidents cup on TV (glad I didn’t miss a minute). Conclusion Whether I seem harsh to some of you out there or not, I consider myself to be a "live and let live" type guy. My late wife told me once I was "generous to a fault". Probably Mike doesn’t think so. I have a sense of justice though, and Nicolas didn’t deserve the pounding he took. The Spam Police should dispense justice more evenhandedly. Good golf to all. jmkanes
Response:
What, no declaration of "no intent to drum up business"? Not surprised. OK, you’re not *technically* in violation of any anti-spamming rule. How about this then? Change the last line of your signature to read: "I do not patronize spammers, but I want everyone to patronize me. Help keep RSG clean (except for me)." How about that? That would add a bit of honesty, always a good thing.
Let’s see. In most of his posts about clubmaking, he goes out of his way to explain to others how they can do it themselves. In this thread he was thanked by another poster for showing him a better way to do something. Yep, that’s a hell of a business plan. By most people’s definition, a spammer is someone who’s sole purpose for posting in an NG (or sending emails) is to create business If you had a clue, you’d realize MD doesn’t fit in that category. He was contributing here long before he hung up his clubdoctor shingle, and his clubmaking venture is basically a result of "unsolicited" requests by members of this NG during the Integra frenzy. Of course, that all happened long before you started posting here which would at least partially explain your ignorance. As long as I’m dishing out smack I might as well throw in one more. Your take on the "cast vs forged" thing is bs. I’m out! (uh oh, to much Jim Rome this week). Dave Clary/Corpus Christi, Tx Home: http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary RSG Roll Call http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=claryd
Response:
I suppose there are multiple ways to trim a golf shaft. One way for graphite; is to apply on center an one inch width, or wider, masking tape at the cut site. This maneuver should make for a clean cut with no burrs, or damage to the shaft. Wrap the spot to be cut 3-4 times with 1", or wider, masking tape. If in doubt about where the mark to cut is, use a marks a lot pen while measuring. Take a mitre box, and a 12" hacksaw with 30 teeth per inch, and saw where marked. Remove the tape. If an one inch by thirty inch belt sander is available, or by hand, slightly dress the tip of the shaft, smooth it up. Prior to removing the finish (decorative / protective coating), tape at a point – up the shaft from the cut end, equivalent in inches to the hosel depth + the ferrule length, minus 1/16". Remove only the decorative coating at this point, and as a final touch for good adhesion of the epoxy glue, abrade the tip in a linear fashion – one or two times – with a medium grit sand paper. Remove any dusty debris. Any heavy scoring of a graphite shaft should be avoided. —– Steel shafts can be cut with a tubing cutter, and the chrome finish on the shaft’s tip can be completely removed with an 1"x 30" belt sander, or equivalent, or by hand sanding, just down to the brassy look, no farther. By slightly roughing up the area with sand paper where the ferrule / hosel go on the shaft is an aid to good adhesion of the epoxy glue. A shaft – regardless of it’s composition, during the prep exercise, should not be subjected to undue mechanical damage. If this happens, you can expect – trouble. —— After putting together a couple of fairway woods I’m embarking on a set of irons. I cut the graphite shafts for the woods with a hacksaw after taping and scoring them. It was the only part of the production I was really tentative about. Bob Andrews
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