Question:
It seems every time I turn on the Golf Channel there is some new startup company with some "new" product that they claim will revolutionize they way you play the game. They get everyone from pro’s to ameteurs to speak volumes of what it has done for their game and what it can do for yours. Here’s the real deal: THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR TECHNIQUE. There is no club that swings itself. People please keep this in mind before you waste your hard earned money on some gimmic. You would be better off spending that same money on lessons. Your game will be better off and your handicap will come down, which is what we are all striving for in the first place. I personally spent an off season doing lessons and dropped a legitimate average of over 10 strokes per round. No single piece of equipment could have done that alone. Do yourself a favour, visit a teaching professional. I am not one myself but I highly endorse them over a manufactuer.
Response:
Agree 100%. The latest scam is being perpetrated by Cleveland. That’s not a company I would think of as needing to dupe people, but they’ve done that with their Emerald (ladies) irons. They say "our clubs give you more distance between clubs." Well, it’s true, cause the clubs are nearly 3/4" apart in shaft length, not the standard 1/2". The 4I is actually a men’s length. By the time you get to the PW, they’re slightly shorter than ladies standard. Buyer beware! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It seems every time I turn on the Golf Channel there is some new startup company with some "new" product that they claim will revolutionize they way you play the game. They get everyone from pro’s to ameteurs to speak volumes of what it has done for their game and what it can do for yours. Here’s the real deal: THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR TECHNIQUE. There is no club that swings itself. People please keep this in mind before you waste your hard earned money on some gimmic. You would be better off spending that same money on lessons. Your game will be better off and your handicap will come down, which is what we are all striving for in the first place. I personally spent an off season doing lessons and dropped a legitimate average of over 10 strokes per round. No single piece of equipment could have done that alone. Do yourself a favour, visit a teaching professional. I am not one myself but I highly endorse them over a manufactuer.
Response:
Well I think you need to settle down here. Just what is an insuult to your intelligence? Ping has come out with a new type of iron, and in a commerical it shows people lining up at a carnival hitting shots with the club, and they have to fight to get the club back each time. The club must be really good, and lots of people are trying it, and each time they have to fight to get the club away. How’s that an insult to my intelligence? Huh? Tell me? Callaway has a similar iron, and David Leadbetter steals a set from the Callaway designer. They must be good, or why would someone as knowledgeable as David Leadbetter want to steal them? How’s that an insult to my intelligence? Huh? I need to know? Heck, even Alice Cooper says they "rock"! You really need to get your priorities right! 
Rob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It seems every time I turn on the Golf Channel there is some new startup company with some "new" product that they claim will revolutionize they way you play the game. They get everyone from pro’s to ameteurs to speak volumes of what it has done for their game and what it can do for yours. Here’s the real deal: THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR TECHNIQUE. There is no club that swings itself. People please keep this in mind before you waste your hard earned money on some gimmic. You would be better off spending that same money on lessons. Your game will be better off and your handicap will come down, which is what we are all striving for in the first place. I personally spent an off season doing lessons and dropped a legitimate average of over 10 strokes per round. No single piece of equipment could have done that alone. Do yourself a favour, visit a teaching professional. I am not one myself but I highly endorse them over a manufactuer.
Response:
It seems every time I turn on the Golf Channel there is some new startup company with some "new" product that they claim will revolutionize they way you play the game. They get everyone from pro’s to ameteurs to speak volumes of what it has done for their game and what it can do for yours.
It’s called marketing. A product would hardly sell if it was hyped with…"well, when we designed this club we wanted to make USGA legal, so that really limited what we could do from a performance standpoint. You as the golfer still need to make a good swing to get results and still need to take lessons and practice to improve your ball striking. Basically, this club isn’t much different than the clubs that were made 10 years ago, but if you need some new clubs, please buy ours. Thanks." It is the consumer’s burden to educate themselves on what works for them and what is reality vs. marketing. This is true of all products–cars, houses, food, electronics, etc. not just golf. Golf has an advantage to a lot of other industries, IMHO, because it has a nitch of harnessing people’s strong emotions and desires to make a very difficult game easier. We ALL want to hit it further and straighter, make more putts, and score five shots lower overnight, without having to work at it. Most golfers subscribe to the instant gratification snake oil that is marketed in front of us constantly. Most people who know anything about golf know that 99% of the new products out there are splitting hairs from a technological/performance standpoint. Since we’ve pretty much reached a threshold of advancements in legal equipment design in the last 10 years, the manufacturers have turned to more aggressive marketing designs (i.e. exotic material(s); graphite shafts) and campaigns (i.e. infomercials, web sites, demo days). Many of the new clubs out there are also marketed with recycled design features from 10, 15, 20 years ago. For example, look at Adams with their Spin Control Technology…if I’m not mistaken, this is really gear effect from a bulge & roll face design as well as a closed clubface design for slicers and an open clubface design for hookers–something that has been around forever to counter the effect of a toe or heel shot or an open or closed clubface. They just packaged it differently to make you think it’s a new breakthrough in design (in fact, they use the word "breakthrough" many times in their infomercials and advertisements). Yeah, it was a breakthrough 30 years ago. Manufacturers say you can hit the ball so much further with this new club. Usually, it is because it is 8 iron with the loft and shaft length of a 6-7 iron. With woods it is mainly because you are swinging a 46" shaft that weighs 50 grams. Personally, I’ve been looking at new clubs (irons) for awhile now. Do I think my clubs suck? No, not at all. I know that properly fitted clubs are only as good as I am. For me, it’s just a boredom thing. I want something fresh to look at. I got 5 years out of my set of irons and I still like them, but I just want to carry something else. Stupid reason to switch clubs? Yeah, probably. We’ll see…… — Washington State University "That shot is impossible!…Jack Nicholson himself couldn’t make it!"– Homer Simpson
Response:
Personally, I’ve been looking at new clubs (irons) for awhile now. Do I think my clubs suck? No, not at all. I know that properly fitted clubs are only as good as I am. For me, it’s just a boredom thing. I want something fresh to look at. I got 5 years out of my set of irons and I still like them, but I just want to carry something else. Stupid reason to switch clubs? Yeah, probably. We’ll see……
I don’t think it’s stupid… Sometimes it’s what sparks a golfers progress… Not necessarily due to any great improvement in technology…. But because CHANGE is happening…and it’s a natural point for improvements that have been taking shape for a long time to express themselves… I can’t forget Colin Wilson saying how he went from Steel shafts, to graphite, and then back to steel, and improved every time he switched…I’m not so sure it was really the SHAFTS, or if they just provided an excuse for him to hang an explanation on…It was possibly COLIN that had improved…not his clubs. Go for it! ]]]Z[[[
Response:
What Cleveland is doing there is really quite intelligent. Woman do have smaller distance increments between clubs and Cleveland addressed the problem with old fashioned fundamentals of club making, nothing magic and those specifications are published in promotional materials. The real scam is really in the notion that we will always accept traditional club increments (1/2", 3 or 4 deg loft / iron, 7g head weight and so forth) to satisfy manufacturing symmetry and the swing weight scale which was invented for hickory shafts.
- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - Agree 100%. The latest scam is being perpetrated by Cleveland. That's not a company I would think of as needing to dupe people, but they've done that with their Emerald (ladies) irons. They say "our clubs give you more distance between clubs." Well, it's true, cause the clubs are nearly 3/4" apart in shaft length, not the standard 1/2". The 4I is actually a men's length. By the time you get to the PW, they're slightly shorter than ladies standard. Buyer beware! It seems every time I turn on the Golf Channel there is some new startup company with some "new" product that they claim will revolutionize they way you play the game. They get everyone from pro's to ameteurs to speak volumes of what it has done for their game and what it can do for yours. Here's the real deal: THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR TECHNIQUE. There is no club that swings itself. People please keep this in mind before you waste your hard earned money on some gimmic. You would be better off spending that same money on lessons. Your game will be better off and your handicap will come down, which is what we are all striving for in the first place. I personally spent an off season doing lessons and dropped a legitimate average of over 10 strokes per round. No single piece of equipment could have done that alone. Do yourself a favour, visit a teaching professional. I am not one myself but I highly endorse them over a manufactuer.
Response:
Ever heard of the "Placebo Effect"?
- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - Personally, I've been looking at new clubs (irons) for awhile now. Do I think my clubs suck? No, not at all. I know that properly fitted clubs are only as good as I am. For me, it's just a boredom thing. I want something fresh to look at. I got 5 years out of my set of irons and I still like them, but I just want to carry something else. Stupid reason to switch clubs? Yeah, probably. We'll see...... I don't think it's stupid... Sometimes it's what sparks a golfers progress... Not necessarily due to any great improvement in technology.... But because CHANGE is happening...and it's a natural point for improvements that have been taking shape for a long time to express themselves... I can't forget Colin Wilson saying how he went from Steel shafts, to graphite, and then back to steel, and improved every time he switched...I'm not so sure it was really the SHAFTS, or if they just provided an excuse for him to hang an explanation on...It was possibly COLIN that had improved...not his clubs. Go for it! ]]]Z[[[
Response:
Ever heard of the "Placebo Effect"?
It wasn't me....honest, I've never even met her...(G)... Zamuel wrote I don't think it's stupid... Sometimes it's what sparks a golfers progress... Not necessarily due to any great improvement in technology.... But because CHANGE is happening...and it's a natural point for improvements that have been taking shape for a long time to express themselves...
Something like that...an agent of change... ]]]Z[[[
Response:
Sorry, Donald. I beg to disagree. Making a 4I standard men’s length and a PW 1/2" short of ladies regular, making the long irons flat, the mids standard, and the shorts upright are a terrific way to mess up someones golf swing. Wouldn’t touch em with a ten foot pole! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What Cleveland is doing there is really quite intelligent. Woman do have smaller distance increments between clubs and Cleveland addressed the problem with old fashioned fundamentals of club making, nothing magic and those specifications are published in promotional materials. The real scam is really in the notion that we will always accept traditional club increments (1/2", 3 or 4 deg loft / iron, 7g head weight and so forth) to satisfy manufacturing symmetry and the swing weight scale which was invented for hickory shafts.
Response:
Ever heard of the "Placebo Effect"?
I think this would be better described as the Lordstown Effect (from Mngt 101) — Dave Clary/Corpus Christi, TX www.geocities.com/~texasp38
Response:
Dee, With all due respect, What’s the difference? The lies in that set are using a contemporary standard, half degree increment which can be found on many iron sets on today’s market. The difference is that these clubs use a 5/8" length increment through most of the set. http://www.clevelandgolf.com/proshop/emerald/index.html Why is it OK for woods to morph in many cases a full inch between clubs and not irons? Also, I do not believe that the Macgregor Louise Suggs and Wilson Patty Burg products of yester year are appropriate to peg modern woman’s club standards to. Lie boards, speed meters, launch/spin monitors and other such gizmos are now proving that optimum set specifications are very different than prevailing view. What Cleveland has done here is to address a serious old problem of incremental distance deficiency. It makes no sense for a woman (or any player for that matter) to carry a set of irons where the distance increment between clubs is only a few feet! If we really wanted to approach the issue objectively, (not saying that we do) the solution should be gender neutral. In point of fact, many golfers actually hit the longest iron numbers shorter than the mid to long irons. This distance deterioration is caused by an inadequate club head speed for the particular dynamic loft and attack angle for any given club length and loft combination. In other words, many strength challenged golfers have no business using a low lofted iron club unless that club has length, shaft and balance properties of a wood. This is one reason why high numbered woods have become popular in recent years. Therefore, it makes good sense to make low lofted clubs go faster no matter how it is achieved. Club length is the best way to do that in most cases assuming that weight, flex and lies are considered. Regarding lie angles, that is something that golfers should have tuned to their individual needs anyway. .
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry, Donald. I beg to disagree. Making a 4I standard men’s length and a PW 1/2" short of ladies regular, making the long irons flat, the mids standard, and the shorts upright are a terrific way to mess up someones golf swing. Wouldn’t touch em with a ten foot pole! What Cleveland is doing there is really quite intelligent. Woman do have smaller distance increments between clubs and Cleveland addressed the problem with old fashioned fundamentals of club making, nothing magic and those specifications are published in promotional materials. The real scam is really in the notion that we will always accept traditional club increments (1/2", 3 or 4 deg loft / iron, 7g head weight and so forth) to satisfy manufacturing symmetry and the swing weight scale which was invented for hickory shafts.