Question:
Most OEM do not swing weight their clubs. Therefore, you get cheated right from the start. Better golfers realize for consistency throughout the set, swing weighting is very important. At Advanced Custom Golf, we give YOU the option to decide if swing weighting is important. Visit us at http://www.tylan.com Let us mend your game with the finest in component golf equipment.
Response:
Most OEM do not swing weight their clubs. Therefore, you get cheated right from the start. Better golfers realize for consistency throughout the set, swing weighting is very important. At Advanced Custom Golf, we give YOU the option to decide if swing weighting is important. Visit us at http://www.tylan.com Let us mend your game with the finest in component golf equipment.
In the year or so I have been on this NG, this qualifies as one of the top ten stupidest posts I have read. (Roger Bunn excepted) EVERY club, by the virtue that it IS a club,HAS a swingweight. Swingweight is an alphanumeric scale that provides us a reference to describe how "heavy" a club feels when it is being swung. Hell, even a sledgehammer has a swing weight. I can only assume this poster is talking about MATCHING the swingweights within a set. Obviously this would be desirable, even essential. But to make the blanket statement that "most OEM" don’t perform this rudimentary step in club building is outrageous. I challenge "Jim White" to publicly identify those manufacturers who ship mismatched sets. The silence will be deafening……. How confident would you be in having "Advanced Custom Golf" build you a set of clubs when they can’t even properly use the simplest terminology? Gives me a warm fuzzy feeling, I’m telling you. Everyone has the right to be stupid. Some just abuse the privilege.
Response:
Sorry, Jim, but this type of idiocy is exactly what gives custom clubmakers a bad name. Most OEM do not swing weight their clubs. Therefore, you get cheated right from the start. Better golfers realize for consistency throughout the set, swing weighting is very important. At Advanced Custom Golf, we give YOU the option to decide if swing weighting is important. Visit us at http://www.tylan.com Let us mend your game with the finest in component golf equipment.
-John Baima DFW Golf and the Java Swingweight Calculator http://rampages.onramp.net/~jbaima/
Response:
I can only assume this poster is talking about MATCHING the swingweights within a set. Obviously this would be desirable, even essential. But to make the blanket statement that "most OEM" don’t perform this rudimentary step in club building is outrageous. I challenge "Jim White" to publicly identify those manufacturers who ship mismatched sets. The silence will be deafening…….
The correct answer might be just about all of them… are most clubs mass produced by machines these days? I doubt if you can count on mass produced clubs being accurately swingweighted thoroughout an entire set.
Response:
to make the blanket statement that "most OEM" don’t perform this rudimentary step in club building is outrageous. I challenge "Jim White" to publicly identify those manufacturers who ship mismatched sets. The silence will be deafening…….
In several private e-mails back and forth with Mr. White, he could only identify an old set of Tommy Armours that he had found mis-weighted (and that set by an admittedly large spread). He was repairing that set, he said. We have no indication that one or more of the clubs in that set had not been reshafted, or that all the clubs he was regripping even were from the same original set. He also made a vague reference to "others over the years". But, even after three opportunities to prove his point, he couldn’t identify any mfg. who is guilty of shipping mis-weighted sets. "It’s not about naming names", he said. Oh, but it is. Sounds like a response right out of the White House…… In my last message to him, I volunteered to take new sets of Callaway, Ping, Taylor, Titleist, Cobra, McGregor, and Pro Select off the rack and check them for swingweight divergence. If there were to be any spread within a set of .5 or more, I was to identify the "culprit" and publicly apologize to Mr. White. His response? He " didn’t want my apology". "Let it die." Leave him alone, etc. And there were a few name-callings thrown in for good measure. Apparently, he has no interest in learning the truth. ( Or in this case, having his outrageous statement held up to scrutiny). I guess he has just assumed the fetal position with the covers over his head. "The silence will be deafening…." are most clubs mass produced by machines these days? I doubt if you can count on mass produced clubs being accurately swingweighted thoroughout an entire set.<
The answer to that statement is a flat NO!!! Every set of clubs I know about is assembled by hand, one set at a time. The shafts are mass produced, obviously, as are the grips, ferrules, and heads. But the asssembly by it’s very nature, must be done by hand. Think about it, folks. If, as Jim White says, the OEM’s were not accurately matching their clubs, don’t you think there would have been hundreds of complaints on these NG’s before now? Wouldn’t someone, somewhere, have made this shameful discovery before?
Response:
My experiences in this News Group have been quite favorable. I meet a lot of nice people. Sometimes, we have a difference of opinions. That’s fine. That’s life On occasion, I meet a person like this DnThMiddle character. He wanted an example. I gave him one. I could give more, but I am not on trial. I serve many people. I know what I am talking about. I think the OEM clubs are great clubs! A lot of research goes in to there design. I made a statement in a posting to the effect that most OEMs are not properly swing weighted. I stand by that statement based on MY experience with regripping or reshafting various heads. Now, Mr.. DnThMiddle can belittle me and my comments as much as he wants. It’s a free country. I will not apologize for what I have seen to be the truth. If anyone else has had good luck with your OEM clubs being swing weighted properly, I am happy for you. My point of the posting was to basically say, clubmakers (in particularly, ME!) can assure you during club construction that the clubs will be properly swing weighted. This DnThMiddle person has done nothing but reply to this News Group and myself with sarcastic remarks. I am sorry this person feels a need to continue trash me and broadcast his displeasure for comments I made, and stand by. He claims his success with "The Big %" has been on the mark. I applaud him, and even thanked him for his comments AND criticism. He still feels the need to continue. For the record, I will not retract what I have found to be the truth. If this person (forgive me ladies, I assume this person to be a male and have referred to the gender as a male) says he has had different results, GREAT! I fail to see why, after making his point here and in private, he must continue to carry on. Anyway, I would like to thank the many customers whom I have had the chance to serve via this NG, as well as all the nice folks I met that may just want to ask a question to me. Like I said, on occasion, rarely, I meet a character like this DnThMiddle. I guess it takes all kinds.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – to make the blanket statement that "most OEM" don’t perform this rudimentary step in club building is outrageous. I challenge "Jim White" to publicly identify those manufacturers who ship mismatched sets. The silence will be deafening……. In several private e-mails back and forth with Mr. White, he could only identify an old set of Tommy Armours that he had found mis-weighted (and that set by an admittedly large spread). He was repairing that set, he said. We have no indication that one or more of the clubs in that set had not been reshafted, or that all the clubs he was regripping even were from the same original set. He also made a vague reference to "others over the years". But, even after three opportunities to prove his point, he couldn’t identify any mfg. who is guilty of shipping mis-weighted sets. "It’s not about naming names", he said. Oh, but it is. Sounds like a response right out of the White House…… In my last message to him, I volunteered to take new sets of Callaway, Ping, Taylor, Titleist, Cobra, McGregor, and Pro Select off the rack and check them for swingweight divergence. If there were to be any spread within a set of .5 or more, I was to identify the "culprit" and publicly apologize to Mr. White. His response? He " didn’t want my apology". "Let it die." Leave him alone, etc. And there were a few name-callings thrown in for good measure. Apparently, he has no interest in learning the truth. ( Or in this case, having his outrageous statement held up to scrutiny). I guess he has just assumed the fetal position with the covers over his head. "The silence will be deafening…." are most clubs mass produced by machines these days? I doubt if you can count on mass produced clubs being accurately swingweighted thoroughout an entire set.< The answer to that statement is a flat NO!!! Every set of clubs I know about is assembled by hand, one set at a time. The shafts are mass produced, obviously, as are the grips, ferrules, and heads. But the asssembly by it’s very nature, must be done by hand. Think about it, folks. If, as Jim White says, the OEM’s were not accurately matching their clubs, don’t you think there would have been hundreds of complaints on these NG’s before now? Wouldn’t someone, somewhere, have made this shameful discovery before?
Response:
In several private e-mails back and forth with Mr. White, he could only identify an old set of Tommy Armours… "It’s not about naming names", he said. Oh, but it is. Sounds like a response right out of the White House……
No doubt, once the world media has dried up and discarded Ms’s Lewinsky, Jones et al (NOT Gore), they will pounce (I say POUNCE) on this scandal! In my last message to him, I volunteered to take new sets of Callaway, Ping, Taylor, Titleist, Cobra, McGregor, and Pro Select off the rack and check them for swingweight divergence.
Big of you. (Omigod! Did he say ‘bigamy?!) His response? He " didn’t want my apology". "Let it die." Leave him alone, etc.
For the sake of future purchasers of golf clubs, and the generations of players yet unborn, I implore you to heed this advice. I don’t even want to contemplate the consequences were this madness to continue. Dare we think the unthinkable — Armourgeddon? The answer to that statement is a flat NO!!! Every set of clubs I know about is assembled by hand, one set at a time.
My seven-year old daughter has been flailing about the yard recently with a set of three plastic Fisher Price kiddie clubs (which vaguely resemble a driver, a putter and, I think, a four iron or thereabouts). I checked with a company spokesman who agreed to answer my question so long as I protected his identity. He answered in one word: "Machine." My work here is done. — Michael J "My myopic view of life" — Me ‘n’ The Barras
Response:
If this person (forgive me ladies, I assume this person to be a male and have referred to the gender as a male)
Forgive me "ladies"?!!! This person sets a new benchmark for the definition of "anal retentive" and you assume it’s a "he"? I think you want to beg the forgiveness of the men on this SIG. * honkkkkkkk… spit * — Michael J "My myopic view of life" — Me ‘n’ The Barras
Response:
are most clubs mass produced by machines these days? I doubt if you can count on mass produced clubs being accurately swingweighted thoroughout an entire set.< The answer to that statement is a flat NO!!! Every set of clubs I know about is assembled by hand, one set at a time. The shafts are mass produced, obviously, as are the grips, ferrules, and heads. But the asssembly by it’s very nature, must be done by hand.
Even still, I envision people mindlessly assembling most clubs in the lower and mid price range. Maybe top of the line clubs are different. Think about it, folks. If, as Jim White says, the OEM’s were not accurately
I think there may very well be many golfers out there that often say, this x iron just doesn’t feel right. Most don’t know to say, I think the swing weight is off on this club. If it’s anywhere close most of us can’t tell the difference. That’s probably why most of us don’t complain much. You still have more convincing to do before I’ll beleive that the majority of off the rack clubs are meticulously swing weighted.
Response:
Yes, every club I have has a swing weight. It’s the swing WAIT at the course that is causing the problem. B Terry
Response:
<SNIP I think there may very well be many golfers out there that often say, this x iron just doesn’t feel right. Most don’t know to say, I think the swing weight is off on this club. If it’s anywhere close most of us can’t tell the difference. That’s probably why most of us don’t complain much. You still have more convincing to do before I’ll beleive that the majority of off the rack clubs are meticulously swing weighted.
This brings up a good point, and that is frequency matching (rather than swing weighting). How many of you have had your set tested for the frequency matching of the shafts? My father recently purchased a set of Callaway X-12s with the RCH96 shaft and just for fun had a friend of his (a custom club-builder) frequency test all the shafts in the set. He found that two of the irons had frequencys that would be considered outside of an "acceptable" tolerance for the set. Pop reported this to the store where he bought them and they gladly replaced those two irons. While I haven’t frequency tested my set of X-12s, I’m curious what kind of experience people here have had. How important do you think it is to have the entire set of shafts come from the factory with a consistent frequency? Anybody know how much attention major manufacturers (Callaway, TM, etc etc) pay to getting their sets consistent? Mike E. —— remove xx at front of email address for replies
Response:
I play frequency matched sticks, and I love them. I can finally hit every club in the bag. All golf clubs are carefully matched within close tolerances. This includes shaft stiffness (frequency), head weight, length, total weight and grip size. The result is a perfectly matched set where every club feels the same, but more importantly reacts the same to my swing. This cannot be achieved with off the rack mass produced clubs. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -This brings up a good point, and that is frequency matching (rather than swing weighting). How many of you have had your set tested for the frequency matching of the shafts? My father recently purchased a set of Callaway X-12s with the RCH96 shaft and just for fun had a friend of his (a custom club-builder) frequency test all the shafts in the set. He found that two of the irons had frequencys that would be considered outside of an "acceptable" tolerance for the set. Pop reported this to the store where he bought them and they gladly replaced those two irons. While I haven’t frequency tested my set of X-12s, I’m curious what kind of experience people here have had. How important do you think it is to have the entire set of shafts come from the factory with a consistent frequency? Anybody know how much attention major manufacturers (Callaway, TM, etc etc) pay to getting their sets consistent? Mike E. —— remove xx at front of email address for replies
Dan Kilbank L.P.P.O. Ottawa Ontario Canada http://www.OttawaGolf.com
Response:
frequency tested my set of X-12s, I’m curious what kind of experience people here have had. How important do you think it is to have the entire set of shafts come from the factory with a consistent frequency? Anybody know how
In the few tests I’ve seen in the rags, good players could pick out the shafts that were out of frequency. They felt sour and hit sour. So maybe it is significant. Anyone want to guess how much of a duffer you can be and still feel this?
Response:
I’ve just started making custom clubs after playing golf for 30 years ince I was a kid. I purchased a frequency meter from Golfsmith and I can say that every set of friends that I have looked at have had problems with the set flexes being congruent. In a set sold as stiff I’ll generally find an X shaft and an R shaft. Usually, the R shaft is the one they hit better. From what I have seen and read, there is very little quality control in the makeup of proline sets. You are paying for all the advertising and money they give to players to endorse their clubs. As a friend of mine on the Tour stated, give a guy a blade club, D2, with the proper shaft and offer him $200,000 more than he is getting to play what is in his bag and you’ll see a new endorsement. Besides, the clubs in their bags are modified to their liking. You may very well see proline brand XXX and wonder if they are a prototype. Also, you can usually get a set as good, if not better, than a proline set for 50%-60% less, and they will be fitted properly. Steve Conlon Conlon’s Custon Clubs NJ PCS_GCA